Artists & Celebries & Entertainment: October 2014

Friday, October 31, 2014

Mind's Eye Re: Holloween

We had only one visit this year - compared with dozens a few years ago.

On Friday, October 31, 2014 3:41:48 PM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote:

31 October .. All little goblins running around with tithing bags in hand..

I wonder how many know today is a catholic spiritual feast day known as "All Souls Day". Tomorrow 1 November is " All Saints Day."

Enjoy filling the tithing bags.

All an
~~
do not murder, rape, enslave or harm others

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Re: Mind's Eye Re: Who can we tell?

Good job Vam's not here - it's Gandhi - though I think he has been portrayed as falsely as imperialism. Missed Gruff's manifesto - Zerohedge Plus I guess. There is some academic work suggesting Islam was formed in Jerusalem by the invading Berber Jews, copying Rome's use of Xtianity as an imperial control fraud. This theory places Medina in Syria.

There have been attempts here to provide legal assistance to victims - something almost any victim of our public services needs. Curate's egg, most results inedible. Most people I've talked with say the response of the agencies eventually gets worse than the offences. The victims' group is always denied voice by the agencies because they already know they aren't doing the job - it's not unlike the perverts being able to rely on complaints against them not being collated. At the same time, I've seen innocent people denied the investigation needed to unearth rogue and repeat false complainers.

On Friday, October 31, 2014 10:41:05 AM UTC, Molly wrote:

Even Ghandi...the problem does seem to be everywhere, but I do agree that we can and should do better by our kids. Peace, like the notion of empowerment, is not something that can be given. It is found within and I do believe you have to learn to leave the thoughts behind first. Sustaining a quiet mind is the first step. LaCasa, or the Lake County Council Against Sexual Assault was independent of the courts and savvy enough to be able to guide the clients through the system, which takes alot of cash to buy attorneys good enough to establish a network in the system (of guys like you Neil) willing to apply the law, leaving out the slime. A fast track, supported by all the non pedophiles willing to put their neck out a little to get it done. Years if not decades in the making, but if this agency is the first step for a victim, chances are they will find their way out of harms way.Human cooperation at its finest. There was an incredibly talented woman at the head from the beginning, charismatic and bright enough to pull it together and keep it together. In her little corner of the world, it made a difference. Globally, it is an enormous problem. When Gruff posted his manifesto here in ME I about fell off my chair. Like I said, everywhere. Who can we tell? It takes some digging to find agencies like LaCasa and if we are lucky enough, they are nearby to be found.

On Thursday, October 30, 2014 11:28:41 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote:
This is a good point Tony - though I'm not sure it is true (I just don't know). One can think of a lot of support - Tito in Yugoslavia, what happened to Cyprus after the Brits left, the break-up of the USSR, Singapore, the current vile dictator in Rwanda, Cyrus the Great in Persia - but Greece and Rome were more barbaric than the so-called Barbarians.

Authority is never as rational as it claims - courtrooms are true Oedipal dramas, economics is no science but rather a religious control fraud - yet women could once not give testimony because they had no testicles of hang onto and they are not so badly treated now. Has what emancipation and freedom we have arisen under terror dictatorship? Iraqis used to tell me Saddam at least kept the Mullahs off their backs - but also that before him they were developing a decent modern society, as Iran was before "we" disrupted their democracies with CIA coups.

The shift to new positive ground is very difficult. One always seems to have to talk to ignorance - a hideous elitist demon arises - we turn Marxism into 'Soviet Paradise' and 'Year Zero', democracy into false promises for the majority vote or to elect the Muslim Brotherhood who will deny future voting - or bully our students with erudite credibility based on a vacuous belief in economics textbooks as pertinent as the Dead Sea Scrolls. Whilst we call for perverts to be jailed we miss that a dozen released perverts a month commit further perversion - and the more important matter that economic policies make more kids vulnerable to exploitation. We rail against child abuse, yet have a legal system allowing evidence of shaken baby syndrome that has no scientific basis and convicts the last person with a child. We have ages of consent, but Polanski still makes films.

We need to be on the high moral ground, yet capable of laughing off the seriousness and zealot's mask. I can wander into the world of Molly clinging to a tree branch as a young girl and share the wonder too. Could you paint anything resembling the restrictions on our thought mate?

On Friday, October 31, 2014 1:10:22 AM UTC, facilitator wrote:
Unfortunately, for mankind, the most peaceful times came under strict rule. Even the Israelites when things were going well shouted to God, "Give us a King to rule over us!" They got some good and some vile.

The middle east was a bit calmer when dictators ruled.

On Thursday, October 30, 2014 8:40:00 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote:
How can we offer peace?

Mind's Eye Holloween

31 October .. All little goblins running around with tithing bags in hand..

I wonder how many know today is a catholic spiritual feast day known as "All Souls Day". Tomorrow 1 November is " All Saints Day."

Enjoy filling the tithing bags.

All an
~~
do not murder, rape, enslave or harm others

Re: Mind's Eye Re: Who can we tell?

Even Ghandi...the problem does seem to be everywhere, but I do agree that we can and should do better by our kids. Peace, like the notion of empowerment, is not something that can be given. It is found within and I do believe you have to learn to leave the thoughts behind first. Sustaining a quiet mind is the first step. LaCasa, or the Lake County Council Against Sexual Assault was independent of the courts and savvy enough to be able to guide the clients through the system, which takes alot of cash to buy attorneys good enough to establish a network in the system (of guys like you Neil) willing to apply the law, leaving out the slime. A fast track, supported by all the non pedophiles willing to put their neck out a little to get it done. Years if not decades in the making, but if this agency is the first step for a victim, chances are they will find their way out of harms way.Human cooperation at its finest. There was an incredibly talented woman at the head from the beginning, charismatic and bright enough to pull it together and keep it together. In her little corner of the world, it made a difference. Globally, it is an enormous problem. When Gruff posted his manifesto here in ME I about fell off my chair. Like I said, everywhere. Who can we tell? It takes some digging to find agencies like LaCasa and if we are lucky enough, they are nearby to be found.

On Thursday, October 30, 2014 11:28:41 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote:

This is a good point Tony - though I'm not sure it is true (I just don't know). One can think of a lot of support - Tito in Yugoslavia, what happened to Cyprus after the Brits left, the break-up of the USSR, Singapore, the current vile dictator in Rwanda, Cyrus the Great in Persia - but Greece and Rome were more barbaric than the so-called Barbarians.

Authority is never as rational as it claims - courtrooms are true Oedipal dramas, economics is no science but rather a religious control fraud - yet women could once not give testimony because they had no testicles of hang onto and they are not so badly treated now. Has what emancipation and freedom we have arisen under terror dictatorship? Iraqis used to tell me Saddam at least kept the Mullahs off their backs - but also that before him they were developing a decent modern society, as Iran was before "we" disrupted their democracies with CIA coups.

The shift to new positive ground is very difficult. One always seems to have to talk to ignorance - a hideous elitist demon arises - we turn Marxism into 'Soviet Paradise' and 'Year Zero', democracy into false promises for the majority vote or to elect the Muslim Brotherhood who will deny future voting - or bully our students with erudite credibility based on a vacuous belief in economics textbooks as pertinent as the Dead Sea Scrolls. Whilst we call for perverts to be jailed we miss that a dozen released perverts a month commit further perversion - and the more important matter that economic policies make more kids vulnerable to exploitation. We rail against child abuse, yet have a legal system allowing evidence of shaken baby syndrome that has no scientific basis and convicts the last person with a child. We have ages of consent, but Polanski still makes films.

We need to be on the high moral ground, yet capable of laughing off the seriousness and zealot's mask. I can wander into the world of Molly clinging to a tree branch as a young girl and share the wonder too. Could you paint anything resembling the restrictions on our thought mate?

On Friday, October 31, 2014 1:10:22 AM UTC, facilitator wrote:
Unfortunately, for mankind, the most peaceful times came under strict rule. Even the Israelites when things were going well shouted to God, "Give us a King to rule over us!" They got some good and some vile.

The middle east was a bit calmer when dictators ruled.

On Thursday, October 30, 2014 8:40:00 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote:
How can we offer peace?

Re: Mind's Eye Re: Who can we tell?

Iran was a republican coup, may sound strange, as it just dawned on me the republican party does not want a democracy rather a dictatorship which they control.
Power and control that is what a lot of few of the american politicians want and they are using fear (non influential out cast) to control other members of their political party..
Islam when you really look at it is not a religion but a dictatorship that uses fear and religion to control and expand its form of government, the Qur'an is a book book written by horny pedafile dictators justifying their lustful ways controlling people using fear and terror. They have done that by eliminating the possibility of spiritual growth, For over 1500 years under the dictatorship of islam, islam is all about control.

Dictatorships are the way of the rich..

All an
~~
do not murder, rape, enslave or harm others

-----Original Message-----
From: archytas <nwterry@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, 31 Oct 2014 4:28 AM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Who can we tell?

This is a good point Tony - though I'm not sure it is true (I just don't know). One can think of a lot of support - Tito in Yugoslavia, what happened to Cyprus after the Brits left, the break-up of the USSR, Singapore, the current vile dictator in Rwanda, Cyrus the Great in Persia - but Greece and Rome were more barbaric than the so-called Barbarians.

Authority is never as rational as it claims - courtrooms are true Oedipal dramas, economics is no science but rather a religious control fraud - yet women could once not give testimony because they had no testicles of hang onto and they are not so badly treated now. Has what emancipation and freedom we have arisen under terror dictatorship? Iraqis used to tell me Saddam at least kept the Mullahs off their backs - but also that before him they were developing a decent modern society, as Iran was before "we" disrupted their democracies with CIA coups.

The shift to new positive ground is very difficult. One always seems to have to talk to ignorance - a hideous elitist demon arises - we turn Marxism into 'Soviet Paradise' and 'Year Zero', democracy into false promises for the majority vote or to elect the Muslim Brotherhood who will deny future voting - or bully our students with erudite credibility based on a vacuous belief in economics textbooks as pertinent as the Dead Sea Scrolls. Whilst we call for perverts to be jailed we miss that a dozen released perverts a month commit further perversion - and the more important matter that economic policies make more kids vulnerable to exploitation. We rail against child abuse, yet have a legal system allowing evidence of shaken baby syndrome that has no scientific basis and convicts the last person with a child. We have ages of consent, but Polanski still makes films.

We need to be on the high moral ground, yet capable of laughing off the seriousness and zealot's mask. I can wander into the world of Molly clinging to a tree branch as a young girl and share the wonder too. Could you paint anything resembling the restrictions on our thought mate?

On Friday, October 31, 2014 1:10:22 AM UTC, facilitator wrote:

Unfortunately, for mankind, the most peaceful times came under strict rule. Even the Israelites when things were going well shouted to God, "Give us a King to rule over us!" They got some good and some vile.

The middle east was a bit calmer when dictators ruled.

On Thursday, October 30, 2014 8:40:00 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote:
How can we offer peace?

Thursday, October 30, 2014

Re: Mind's Eye Re: Who can we tell?

On Friday, October 31, 2014 1:10:22 AM UTC, facilitator wrote:

Unfortunately, for mankind, the most peaceful times came under strict rule. Even the Israelites when things were going well shouted to God, "Give us a King to rule over us!" They got some good and some vile.

The middle east was a bit calmer when dictators ruled.

On Thursday, October 30, 2014 8:40:00 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote:
How can we offer peace?

Re: Mind's Eye Re: Who can we tell?

Unfortunately, for mankind, the most peaceful times came under strict rule. Even the Israelites when things were going well shouted to God, "Give us a King to rule over us!" They got some good and some vile.

The middle east was a bit calmer when dictators ruled.

On Thursday, October 30, 2014 8:40:00 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote:

How can we offer peace?

Re: Mind's Eye Re: Who can we tell?

Here we have a long-running paedophile politician and celebrity abuser saga, amongst a wider problem with failing young kids on CSE. The first appointment to our "Inquiry" was an 81 tear old judge who was the mother of a possible cover-up perp and also married to a dead judge 'who liked prostitutes in Africa'. Next up a solicitor living next door but 4 to another likely perp who shared dinner parties with him and was economic with the truth on her relationship with his wife. Now the excuse is that it is impossible to find an member of the Establishment to run the thing who won't know likely actual or cover up perps - something I both neither believe and which attempts to elide the Establishment problem. We need non-Establishment investigations.

We have select committee enquiries - in this area it is the home office select committee chair by one Keith Vaz MP. Vaz has been up to his ears in expenses and undue influence problems, once barred from Parliament for a month (he was previously a Blair flunky). Sue was an IPCC investigator - she was put on lengthy, tedious enquiries into unimportant matters, including a complaint into an endless thing involving a rugby league paedophile (everywhere!). In the suicide of a female firearms' officer she found the poor woman had been taking a prescription drug no one near a gun should be allowed - missed by the cops. The IPCC started with human rights and transparency concerns and is now just another cover up. To get almost any enquiry, we have to rely on the press whipping matters up - they are best thought of as presstitutes and are severely hampered by libel law. Jimmy Saville and MP Cyril Smith had to die before we 'heard' of their hundreds of crimes - others like Rolf Harris are being prosecuted as old men. On television we have CSI - on reality we leave rape kits untested (127 serial rapists in the first 2000 belatedly tested).

I asked who we can tell - promised anonymity, witnesses in a violent drug case start to give evidence from behind a screen only to have their names read out by the court usher - cops regularly start to smear people complaining against them - and all the agencies leak like sieves. Ann Coffey MP has just produced a report on victims in Greater Manchester, yet there is nothing in it she could not have learned at a conference my team produced at university in 2005 - though I wouldn't knock her for trying and unusually for an MP she has some relevant qualifications and experience. We have undercover cops sleeping with activist groups they should not be penetrating (argh!) - and teachers who dare not put a plaster on a grazed knee.

Sadly, I have more sense the Paedofinder General will ride ('Monkeydust') than sensible solutions. Abusers are still released to live in the same street as previous victims. Africa has seen WW3. We were months late responding to Ebola - but decades really. I saw two lovely women explaining their plight as survivors, squalor all round two people speaking a foreign language (English) making me wonder how education is supposed to help.

There is potential in new technologies to change all this (or obviously blow ourselves to bits) - yet only one in ten of our politicians even knows how money is created. We have enquiries made of Vantablack from which no light escapes. What life are we offering poor young kids who "prefer" to get themselves involved with vile sexual groomers? Or jihadis who go to Syria? Or Nigeria with vast oil wealth and boko harem?

How can we offer peace?

On Thursday, October 30, 2014 5:51:34 PM UTC, Molly wrote:

I don't know that we are doing better. Not much vetting of issues of sexual abuse by the press, probably for the same reasons that the cops and courts shy away. It is everywhere, and if we wonder why the world is filled with psychos, try to imagine what happens to the psychology of the child abused. Not much chance of living disorder free...

Here in Detroit, the President of the City Council was charged in a civil suit for sexual abuse of a minor boy after efforts by the mother to have criminal charges brought failed. The guy (city council president) just disappeared without a word, and left the council with that vacancy for several months in the midst of bankruptcy proceedings. the guy was actually a TV reporter before becoming a politician. Last seen waiting tables in New York City. Everywhere.

On Thursday, October 30, 2014 12:20:35 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote:
"Gates" don't have ti be physical Allan. Must stop playing straight man to Facil nob gags. The principle of re-hanging sounds Promethean. Leadership - in the block captain kind of way - is always problematic. Makes me cringe - I used to get very bossy in suffering fools situations - though a few people benefited from me in kick-arse mode.

This report into child sexual exploitation in Greater Manchester is peculiar - it's an expose and whitewash at the same time - a kind of anti-matter version of Molly's 'embrace the paradox'. 'It doesn't matter we made mistakes, allowed rapes and denigration, because we're doing better now' sort of stuff. 'Trust us, we're the people who failed you in the past'!

Size doesn't matter Tony, unless you're hanging wallpaper.

On Thursday, October 30, 2014 3:52:09 PM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote:
What owners association?
The idea behind a coop is there are no owners. And no one can own part of it. (Church of Common Cooperation) guidelines set up. Either you follow the guidelines or move else where.
You pay your rent, do your community responsibilities, participate in community affairs and activities.. It can not be a place to pay your rent then hide away.

All an
~~
do not murder, rape, enslave or harm others

-----Original Message-----
From: Molly <mollyb363@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Who can we tell?

developing those common standards might be a sticky wicket. I always cringe when asked to be on a committee to review by-laws, and have managed to dodge owners associations without exception. Oh the horror.

On Thursday, October 30, 2014 5:46:39 AM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote:
There is a lot of major problems world wide. I don't think realistically you can gate an entire town. But an apartment complex can be .. I think the keys lay within a common moral standards agreement and non ownership. Lack of ownership would allow for removal of those that do not follow the guidelines ... (Unfortunately i do not think a regular hanging of Me or Tony would solve any problems).

All an
~~
do not murder, rape, enslave or harm others

-----Original Message-----
From: archytas <nwterry@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Who can we tell?

Hanging might be less cruel than suffering some of the cop, social worker and other town hall incompetence. A lot of the kids lied to me Molly - quite common in abuse cases - over stuff I could check up on. Some even tried to chat me up etc. Given we have known forever that many abuse cases are not independently witnessed and victims are incredibly easy to discredit, I'm amazed we don't routinely bug to get independent evidence - I even hid in a wardrobe to get one perp. Given people catch their nannies doing things wrong on CCTV, you'd think we could work a system out for abuse.

I've often thought we could go back to something more like village life by gating off in our existing towns.

Tony is probably the only one of us who gets hung regularly.

On Thursday, October 30, 2014 8:09:33 AM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote:
Good idea Tony, hope you are never the victim. (Hmmm)

You have a job i would not envy, times are hard and will be getting harder.. It seems to me there is an ever increasing desire for war from all sides.

Been thinking about my dad and the men's coop. Considering the down slide in morality, the coop idea might have possibilities especially when coupled with a gated community.
My idea is the community would be owned by the coop .. ( say a block of apartments) To become a member of the gated or coop you have to live to a set of moral commitments. (Including spousal abuse , drug use (guidelines would need to be developed. (lol right after we hang Tony for something he might do or could have done.. (",)

All an
~~
do not murder, rape, enslave or harm others

-----Original Message-----
From: "'facilitator' via \"Minds Eye\"" <minds-eye@googlegroups.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 7:21 AM
Subject: Mind's Eye Re: Who can we tell?

Iran has seem to have solved the problem by being able to hang the victim.

On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 9:40:49 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote:
BBC's 'Panorama' produced a documentary last night on 'Baby P' - Peter Connelly killed at 17 months after much abuse 7 years ago. The perpetrators were jailed, scum of little interest. There was a serious case review, generally a hapless procedure of whitewash here. It now seems this and other reports were a fix to pin blame on social services - in fact all agencies involved were useless, social services perhaps less so than the politicians and others. Obviously, no reasonable society would want this kind of vicious cover-up at all or not to know what really went on for 7 years, given we should want to put things right (the 'learning lessons' rhetoric).

Britain is an intensely secretive society. I don't even know why we got involved in the two world wars, let alone Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria. When I think of Gabby or Germans I have actually met, I have even less idea on the world wars. I doubt ignorance is my problem in this - it's just clear the general stuff we are given is bunk. When one researches social issues from war to child abuse, the reality shifts a long way from the history of Empire I was taught and the idea our politicians and bureaucracy operate in any competent way.

In another case, in Rotherham, more than 1400 victims of child sexual exploitation were further abused by all the services they encountered. In this case, a young, female Home Office researcher had her work destroyed and was threatened by two police officers who said they were going to give her name and address to the abusers. There are so many other cases I doubt I could finish writing their outline within a couple of days. This is before one thinks about our banks and business practices, and revolting breaches of trust by priests, teachers and cops.

Who can we even tell when it is almost impossible to think of any speedy and fair investigations and resolutions - or even admissions of wrong-doing by our establishments? This before you realise cops and other agencies quickly brief against victims and other complainants.

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Re: Mind's Eye Re: Hi, New to the group.

Just shows you how little I know, didn't click on that one.. (",)
TNX

All an
~~
do not murder, rape, enslave or harm others

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Blay <richsun.b@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 9:00 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Hi, New to the group.

Allan, I just checked, they (the guidlines) are there.

in case you visit again, just click on the 'welcome...'.

note: I'm browsing via mobile. I don't know about the computers, I mean how the homepage appears.

On Oct 30, 2014 7:35 PM, "Allan H" <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:

Sorry Richard ignorance is not an excuse.
But I went to reread the guidelines, (I did read them when I first joined, a day or two ago. (",) )
Anyway I went to the ME home page on Google groups and my age must be working against but I could not locate them.

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Blay <richsun.b@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Hi, New to the group.

'Ignorance of the law is not an excuse'.
I personally don't agree with that statement, maybe you too, Facilitator.

On Oct 30, 2014 6:00 PM, "gabbydott" <gabbydott@gmail.com> wrote:
[echoing: ... be sure to read the guidelines ...]

Am 30.10.2014 16:15 schrieb "Molly" <mollyb363@gmail.com>:
Welcome, Richard. Be sure to read the guidelines and feel free to chime in!

On Thursday, October 23, 2014 8:08:28 PM UTC-4, Richard Hansen wrote:
I am excited to join the group and be involved in discussions and meet new people.

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Re: Mind's Eye Re: Hi, New to the group.

Allan, I just checked, they (the guidlines) are there.

in case you visit again, just click on the 'welcome...'.

note: I'm browsing via mobile. I don't know about the computers, I mean how the homepage appears.

On Oct 30, 2014 7:35 PM, "Allan H" <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:

Sorry Richard ignorance is not an excuse.
But I went to reread the guidelines, (I did read them when I first joined, a day or two ago. (",) )
Anyway I went to the ME home page on Google groups and my age must be working against but I could not locate them.

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Blay <richsun.b@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Hi, New to the group.

'Ignorance of the law is not an excuse'.
I personally don't agree with that statement, maybe you too, Facilitator.

On Oct 30, 2014 6:00 PM, "gabbydott" <gabbydott@gmail.com> wrote:
[echoing: ... be sure to read the guidelines ...]

Am 30.10.2014 16:15 schrieb "Molly" <mollyb363@gmail.com>:
Welcome, Richard. Be sure to read the guidelines and feel free to chime in!

On Thursday, October 23, 2014 8:08:28 PM UTC-4, Richard Hansen wrote:
I am excited to join the group and be involved in discussions and meet new people.

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Re: Mind's Eye Re: Hi, New to the group.

Sorry Richard ignorance is not an excuse.
But I went to reread the guidelines, (I did read them when I first joined, a day or two ago. (",) )
Anyway I went to the ME home page on Google groups and my age must be working against but I could not locate them.

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Blay <richsun.b@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Hi, New to the group.

'Ignorance of the law is not an excuse'.
I personally don't agree with that statement, maybe you too, Facilitator.

On Oct 30, 2014 6:00 PM, "gabbydott" <gabbydott@gmail.com> wrote:

[echoing: ... be sure to read the guidelines ...]

Am 30.10.2014 16:15 schrieb "Molly" <mollyb363@gmail.com>:
Welcome, Richard. Be sure to read the guidelines and feel free to chime in!

On Thursday, October 23, 2014 8:08:28 PM UTC-4, Richard Hansen wrote:
I am excited to join the group and be involved in discussions and meet new people.

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Re: Mind's Eye Re: Hi, New to the group.

'Ignorance of the law is not an excuse'.
I personally don't agree with that statement, maybe you too, Facilitator.

On Oct 30, 2014 6:00 PM, "gabbydott" <gabbydott@gmail.com> wrote:

[echoing: ... be sure to read the guidelines ...]

Am 30.10.2014 16:15 schrieb "Molly" <mollyb363@gmail.com>:
Welcome, Richard. Be sure to read the guidelines and feel free to chime in!

On Thursday, October 23, 2014 8:08:28 PM UTC-4, Richard Hansen wrote:
I am excited to join the group and be involved in discussions and meet new people.

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Re: Mind's Eye Re: Hi, New to the group.

[echoing: ... be sure to read the guidelines ...]

Am 30.10.2014 16:15 schrieb "Molly" <mollyb363@gmail.com>:

Welcome, Richard. Be sure to read the guidelines and feel free to chime in!

On Thursday, October 23, 2014 8:08:28 PM UTC-4, Richard Hansen wrote:
I am excited to join the group and be involved in discussions and meet new people.

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Re: Mind's Eye Re: Who can we tell?

I don't know that we are doing better. Not much vetting of issues of sexual abuse by the press, probably for the same reasons that the cops and courts shy away. It is everywhere, and if we wonder why the world is filled with psychos, try to imagine what happens to the psychology of the child abused. Not much chance of living disorder free...

Here in Detroit, the President of the City Council was charged in a civil suit for sexual abuse of a minor boy after efforts by the mother to have criminal charges brought failed. The guy (city council president) just disappeared without a word, and left the council with that vacancy for several months in the midst of bankruptcy proceedings. the guy was actually a TV reporter before becoming a politician. Last seen waiting tables in New York City. Everywhere.

On Thursday, October 30, 2014 12:20:35 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote:

"Gates" don't have ti be physical Allan. Must stop playing straight man to Facil nob gags. The principle of re-hanging sounds Promethean. Leadership - in the block captain kind of way - is always problematic. Makes me cringe - I used to get very bossy in suffering fools situations - though a few people benefited from me in kick-arse mode.

This report into child sexual exploitation in Greater Manchester is peculiar - it's an expose and whitewash at the same time - a kind of anti-matter version of Molly's 'embrace the paradox'. 'It doesn't matter we made mistakes, allowed rapes and denigration, because we're doing better now' sort of stuff. 'Trust us, we're the people who failed you in the past'!

Size doesn't matter Tony, unless you're hanging wallpaper.

On Thursday, October 30, 2014 3:52:09 PM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote:
What owners association?
The idea behind a coop is there are no owners. And no one can own part of it. (Church of Common Cooperation) guidelines set up. Either you follow the guidelines or move else where.
You pay your rent, do your community responsibilities, participate in community affairs and activities.. It can not be a place to pay your rent then hide away.

All an
~~
do not murder, rape, enslave or harm others

-----Original Message-----
From: Molly <mollyb363@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Who can we tell?

developing those common standards might be a sticky wicket. I always cringe when asked to be on a committee to review by-laws, and have managed to dodge owners associations without exception. Oh the horror.

On Thursday, October 30, 2014 5:46:39 AM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote:
There is a lot of major problems world wide. I don't think realistically you can gate an entire town. But an apartment complex can be .. I think the keys lay within a common moral standards agreement and non ownership. Lack of ownership would allow for removal of those that do not follow the guidelines ... (Unfortunately i do not think a regular hanging of Me or Tony would solve any problems).

All an
~~
do not murder, rape, enslave or harm others

-----Original Message-----
From: archytas <nwterry@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Who can we tell?

Hanging might be less cruel than suffering some of the cop, social worker and other town hall incompetence. A lot of the kids lied to me Molly - quite common in abuse cases - over stuff I could check up on. Some even tried to chat me up etc. Given we have known forever that many abuse cases are not independently witnessed and victims are incredibly easy to discredit, I'm amazed we don't routinely bug to get independent evidence - I even hid in a wardrobe to get one perp. Given people catch their nannies doing things wrong on CCTV, you'd think we could work a system out for abuse.

I've often thought we could go back to something more like village life by gating off in our existing towns.

Tony is probably the only one of us who gets hung regularly.

On Thursday, October 30, 2014 8:09:33 AM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote:
Good idea Tony, hope you are never the victim. (Hmmm)

You have a job i would not envy, times are hard and will be getting harder.. It seems to me there is an ever increasing desire for war from all sides.

Been thinking about my dad and the men's coop. Considering the down slide in morality, the coop idea might have possibilities especially when coupled with a gated community.
My idea is the community would be owned by the coop .. ( say a block of apartments) To become a member of the gated or coop you have to live to a set of moral commitments. (Including spousal abuse , drug use (guidelines would need to be developed. (lol right after we hang Tony for something he might do or could have done.. (",)

All an
~~
do not murder, rape, enslave or harm others

-----Original Message-----
From: "'facilitator' via \"Minds Eye\"" <minds-eye@googlegroups.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 7:21 AM
Subject: Mind's Eye Re: Who can we tell?

Iran has seem to have solved the problem by being able to hang the victim.

On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 9:40:49 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote:
BBC's 'Panorama' produced a documentary last night on 'Baby P' - Peter Connelly killed at 17 months after much abuse 7 years ago. The perpetrators were jailed, scum of little interest. There was a serious case review, generally a hapless procedure of whitewash here. It now seems this and other reports were a fix to pin blame on social services - in fact all agencies involved were useless, social services perhaps less so than the politicians and others. Obviously, no reasonable society would want this kind of vicious cover-up at all or not to know what really went on for 7 years, given we should want to put things right (the 'learning lessons' rhetoric).

Britain is an intensely secretive society. I don't even know why we got involved in the two world wars, let alone Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria. When I think of Gabby or Germans I have actually met, I have even less idea on the world wars. I doubt ignorance is my problem in this - it's just clear the general stuff we are given is bunk. When one researches social issues from war to child abuse, the reality shifts a long way from the history of Empire I was taught and the idea our politicians and bureaucracy operate in any competent way.

In another case, in Rotherham, more than 1400 victims of child sexual exploitation were further abused by all the services they encountered. In this case, a young, female Home Office researcher had her work destroyed and was threatened by two police officers who said they were going to give her name and address to the abusers. There are so many other cases I doubt I could finish writing their outline within a couple of days. This is before one thinks about our banks and business practices, and revolting breaches of trust by priests, teachers and cops.

Who can we even tell when it is almost impossible to think of any speedy and fair investigations and resolutions - or even admissions of wrong-doing by our establishments? This before you realise cops and other agencies quickly brief against victims and other complainants.

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Re: Mind's Eye Re: Who can we tell?

Even the coops that are now just shops and a failed bank run by a drug addict Methodist minister were once a rebellion against 'trucking' - over-priced factory shops Moll.

On Thursday, October 30, 2014 5:42:51 PM UTC, Molly wrote:

cynical

On Thursday, October 30, 2014 11:49:15 AM UTC-4, facilitator wrote:
I wish ! Not all artists are well hung. Some of the work ends up in garage sales.

In regards to the woman who was hung recently in Iran, there is an underlying premiss that any evil men do are simply the result of a woman causing that to occur. This is partly the problem within the system is the premiss that somehow people are inherently good…we are not. Our morality fights the evolutionary urge to be the fittest and to kill off the competitor, or the weaker.

On Thursday, October 30, 2014 5:08:02 AM UTC-4, archytas wrote:
Hanging might be less cruel than suffering some of the cop, social worker and other town hall incompetence. A lot of the kids lied to me Molly - quite common in abuse cases - over stuff I could check up on. Some even tried to chat me up etc. Given we have known forever that many abuse cases are not independently witnessed and victims are incredibly easy to discredit, I'm amazed we don't routinely bug to get independent evidence - I even hid in a wardrobe to get one perp. Given people catch their nannies doing things wrong on CCTV, you'd think we could work a system out for abuse.

I've often thought we could go back to something more like village life by gating off in our existing towns.

Tony is probably the only one of us who gets hung regularly.

On Thursday, October 30, 2014 8:09:33 AM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote:
Good idea Tony, hope you are never the victim. (Hmmm)

You have a job i would not envy, times are hard and will be getting harder.. It seems to me there is an ever increasing desire for war from all sides.

Been thinking about my dad and the men's coop. Considering the down slide in morality, the coop idea might have possibilities especially when coupled with a gated community.
My idea is the community would be owned by the coop .. ( say a block of apartments) To become a member of the gated or coop you have to live to a set of moral commitments. (Including spousal abuse , drug use (guidelines would need to be developed. (lol right after we hang Tony for something he might do or could have done.. (",)

All an
~~
do not murder, rape, enslave or harm others

-----Original Message-----
From: "'facilitator' via \"Minds Eye\"" <mind...@googlegroups.com>
To: mind...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 7:21 AM
Subject: Mind's Eye Re: Who can we tell?

Iran has seem to have solved the problem by being able to hang the victim.

On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 9:40:49 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote:
BBC's 'Panorama' produced a documentary last night on 'Baby P' - Peter Connelly killed at 17 months after much abuse 7 years ago. The perpetrators were jailed, scum of little interest. There was a serious case review, generally a hapless procedure of whitewash here. It now seems this and other reports were a fix to pin blame on social services - in fact all agencies involved were useless, social services perhaps less so than the politicians and others. Obviously, no reasonable society would want this kind of vicious cover-up at all or not to know what really went on for 7 years, given we should want to put things right (the 'learning lessons' rhetoric).

Britain is an intensely secretive society. I don't even know why we got involved in the two world wars, let alone Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria. When I think of Gabby or Germans I have actually met, I have even less idea on the world wars. I doubt ignorance is my problem in this - it's just clear the general stuff we are given is bunk. When one researches social issues from war to child abuse, the reality shifts a long way from the history of Empire I was taught and the idea our politicians and bureaucracy operate in any competent way.

In another case, in Rotherham, more than 1400 victims of child sexual exploitation were further abused by all the services they encountered. In this case, a young, female Home Office researcher had her work destroyed and was threatened by two police officers who said they were going to give her name and address to the abusers. There are so many other cases I doubt I could finish writing their outline within a couple of days. This is before one thinks about our banks and business practices, and revolting breaches of trust by priests, teachers and cops.

Who can we even tell when it is almost impossible to think of any speedy and fair investigations and resolutions - or even admissions of wrong-doing by our establishments? This before you realise cops and other agencies quickly brief against victims and other complainants.

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Re: Mind's Eye Re: Who can we tell?

Tony's humour and art contain angel-devil issues - think of those optical illusion things.

If I say 'look at the white for the angels, the black for demons' am I a helpful angel or a patronising old devil? And does that question itself skew us and cue us in the wrong direction? You'll have something better than this Escher Tony. I've walked up those stairs of his that can't lead anywhere several times when drunk. Easy! Would the mitochondria now living in us and now powering our lives rather be free?

People do very different things in different material contexts. I broke rules as a cop in what I hope was noble cause - though I never lied to fit anyone up. What was the woman who claimed I whipped out my penis in class (she had the grace to faint) doing - fortunately there were two dozen other witnesses - and what was she doing coming into my office three days later insisting I continued teaching her? Didn't have the heart to sue. Kids from a children's home in Wales claimed they had been abused in the cellars of an old house - on inspection the house had no cellars.

Some of us follow where the evidence leads, others resort to clown stereotyping. Our politics is now full blown Emperor's New Clothes, our politicians as thick as thieves and mud. Our literature is now self-replicating kitsch (UK Channel 4's Babylon is worth a watch, pilot a few months back, series coming in November - beautiful phrases like 'transparent PR' may be an odd man out - plus the brilliant 'Four Lions').

It's possible to think of Allan's dad's cooperative in modern terms of positive money, block-chain technology to control the accounting and the removal of debt from much of the economy. But we can also imagine cops turning up and actually doing their job!

On Thursday, October 30, 2014 4:23:21 PM UTC, archytas wrote:

The Coop means the 7/11 down the road here Allan, though it opens as 6 and shuts at 10. I would like to give one a try in the living sense. Did in Spain years back but couldn't afford to stay.

On Thursday, October 30, 2014 3:52:09 PM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote:
What owners association?
The idea behind a coop is there are no owners. And no one can own part of it. (Church of Common Cooperation) guidelines set up. Either you follow the guidelines or move else where.
You pay your rent, do your community responsibilities, participate in community affairs and activities.. It can not be a place to pay your rent then hide away.

All an
~~
do not murder, rape, enslave or harm others

-----Original Message-----
From: Molly <mollyb363@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Who can we tell?

developing those common standards might be a sticky wicket. I always cringe when asked to be on a committee to review by-laws, and have managed to dodge owners associations without exception. Oh the horror.

On Thursday, October 30, 2014 5:46:39 AM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote:
There is a lot of major problems world wide. I don't think realistically you can gate an entire town. But an apartment complex can be .. I think the keys lay within a common moral standards agreement and non ownership. Lack of ownership would allow for removal of those that do not follow the guidelines ... (Unfortunately i do not think a regular hanging of Me or Tony would solve any problems).

All an
~~
do not murder, rape, enslave or harm others

-----Original Message-----
From: archytas <nwterry@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Who can we tell?

Hanging might be less cruel than suffering some of the cop, social worker and other town hall incompetence. A lot of the kids lied to me Molly - quite common in abuse cases - over stuff I could check up on. Some even tried to chat me up etc. Given we have known forever that many abuse cases are not independently witnessed and victims are incredibly easy to discredit, I'm amazed we don't routinely bug to get independent evidence - I even hid in a wardrobe to get one perp. Given people catch their nannies doing things wrong on CCTV, you'd think we could work a system out for abuse.

I've often thought we could go back to something more like village life by gating off in our existing towns.

Tony is probably the only one of us who gets hung regularly.

On Thursday, October 30, 2014 8:09:33 AM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote:
Good idea Tony, hope you are never the victim. (Hmmm)

You have a job i would not envy, times are hard and will be getting harder.. It seems to me there is an ever increasing desire for war from all sides.

Been thinking about my dad and the men's coop. Considering the down slide in morality, the coop idea might have possibilities especially when coupled with a gated community.
My idea is the community would be owned by the coop .. ( say a block of apartments) To become a member of the gated or coop you have to live to a set of moral commitments. (Including spousal abuse , drug use (guidelines would need to be developed. (lol right after we hang Tony for something he might do or could have done.. (",)

All an
~~
do not murder, rape, enslave or harm others

-----Original Message-----
From: "'facilitator' via \"Minds Eye\"" <minds-eye@googlegroups.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 7:21 AM
Subject: Mind's Eye Re: Who can we tell?

Iran has seem to have solved the problem by being able to hang the victim.

On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 9:40:49 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote:
BBC's 'Panorama' produced a documentary last night on 'Baby P' - Peter Connelly killed at 17 months after much abuse 7 years ago. The perpetrators were jailed, scum of little interest. There was a serious case review, generally a hapless procedure of whitewash here. It now seems this and other reports were a fix to pin blame on social services - in fact all agencies involved were useless, social services perhaps less so than the politicians and others. Obviously, no reasonable society would want this kind of vicious cover-up at all or not to know what really went on for 7 years, given we should want to put things right (the 'learning lessons' rhetoric).

Britain is an intensely secretive society. I don't even know why we got involved in the two world wars, let alone Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria. When I think of Gabby or Germans I have actually met, I have even less idea on the world wars. I doubt ignorance is my problem in this - it's just clear the general stuff we are given is bunk. When one researches social issues from war to child abuse, the reality shifts a long way from the history of Empire I was taught and the idea our politicians and bureaucracy operate in any competent way.

In another case, in Rotherham, more than 1400 victims of child sexual exploitation were further abused by all the services they encountered. In this case, a young, female Home Office researcher had her work destroyed and was threatened by two police officers who said they were going to give her name and address to the abusers. There are so many other cases I doubt I could finish writing their outline within a couple of days. This is before one thinks about our banks and business practices, and revolting breaches of trust by priests, teachers and cops.

Who can we even tell when it is almost impossible to think of any speedy and fair investigations and resolutions - or even admissions of wrong-doing by our establishments? This before you realise cops and other agencies quickly brief against victims and other complainants.

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Re: Mind's Eye Re: Who can we tell?

cynical

On Thursday, October 30, 2014 11:49:15 AM UTC-4, facilitator wrote:

I wish ! Not all artists are well hung. Some of the work ends up in garage sales.

In regards to the woman who was hung recently in Iran, there is an underlying premiss that any evil men do are simply the result of a woman causing that to occur. This is partly the problem within the system is the premiss that somehow people are inherently good…we are not. Our morality fights the evolutionary urge to be the fittest and to kill off the competitor, or the weaker.

On Thursday, October 30, 2014 5:08:02 AM UTC-4, archytas wrote:
Hanging might be less cruel than suffering some of the cop, social worker and other town hall incompetence. A lot of the kids lied to me Molly - quite common in abuse cases - over stuff I could check up on. Some even tried to chat me up etc. Given we have known forever that many abuse cases are not independently witnessed and victims are incredibly easy to discredit, I'm amazed we don't routinely bug to get independent evidence - I even hid in a wardrobe to get one perp. Given people catch their nannies doing things wrong on CCTV, you'd think we could work a system out for abuse.

I've often thought we could go back to something more like village life by gating off in our existing towns.

Tony is probably the only one of us who gets hung regularly.

On Thursday, October 30, 2014 8:09:33 AM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote:
Good idea Tony, hope you are never the victim. (Hmmm)

You have a job i would not envy, times are hard and will be getting harder.. It seems to me there is an ever increasing desire for war from all sides.

Been thinking about my dad and the men's coop. Considering the down slide in morality, the coop idea might have possibilities especially when coupled with a gated community.
My idea is the community would be owned by the coop .. ( say a block of apartments) To become a member of the gated or coop you have to live to a set of moral commitments. (Including spousal abuse , drug use (guidelines would need to be developed. (lol right after we hang Tony for something he might do or could have done.. (",)

All an
~~
do not murder, rape, enslave or harm others

-----Original Message-----
From: "'facilitator' via \"Minds Eye\"" <mind...@googlegroups.com>
To: mind...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 7:21 AM
Subject: Mind's Eye Re: Who can we tell?

Iran has seem to have solved the problem by being able to hang the victim.

On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 9:40:49 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote:
BBC's 'Panorama' produced a documentary last night on 'Baby P' - Peter Connelly killed at 17 months after much abuse 7 years ago. The perpetrators were jailed, scum of little interest. There was a serious case review, generally a hapless procedure of whitewash here. It now seems this and other reports were a fix to pin blame on social services - in fact all agencies involved were useless, social services perhaps less so than the politicians and others. Obviously, no reasonable society would want this kind of vicious cover-up at all or not to know what really went on for 7 years, given we should want to put things right (the 'learning lessons' rhetoric).

Britain is an intensely secretive society. I don't even know why we got involved in the two world wars, let alone Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria. When I think of Gabby or Germans I have actually met, I have even less idea on the world wars. I doubt ignorance is my problem in this - it's just clear the general stuff we are given is bunk. When one researches social issues from war to child abuse, the reality shifts a long way from the history of Empire I was taught and the idea our politicians and bureaucracy operate in any competent way.

In another case, in Rotherham, more than 1400 victims of child sexual exploitation were further abused by all the services they encountered. In this case, a young, female Home Office researcher had her work destroyed and was threatened by two police officers who said they were going to give her name and address to the abusers. There are so many other cases I doubt I could finish writing their outline within a couple of days. This is before one thinks about our banks and business practices, and revolting breaches of trust by priests, teachers and cops.

Who can we even tell when it is almost impossible to think of any speedy and fair investigations and resolutions - or even admissions of wrong-doing by our establishments? This before you realise cops and other agencies quickly brief against victims and other complainants.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.
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Re: Mind's Eye Re: Who can we tell?

The Coop means the 7/11 down the road here Allan, though it opens as 6 and shuts at 10. I would like to give one a try in the living sense. Did in Spain years back but couldn't afford to stay.

On Thursday, October 30, 2014 3:52:09 PM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote:

What owners association?
The idea behind a coop is there are no owners. And no one can own part of it. (Church of Common Cooperation) guidelines set up. Either you follow the guidelines or move else where.
You pay your rent, do your community responsibilities, participate in community affairs and activities.. It can not be a place to pay your rent then hide away.

All an
~~
do not murder, rape, enslave or harm others

-----Original Message-----
From: Molly <mollyb363@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Who can we tell?

developing those common standards might be a sticky wicket. I always cringe when asked to be on a committee to review by-laws, and have managed to dodge owners associations without exception. Oh the horror.

On Thursday, October 30, 2014 5:46:39 AM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote:
There is a lot of major problems world wide. I don't think realistically you can gate an entire town. But an apartment complex can be .. I think the keys lay within a common moral standards agreement and non ownership. Lack of ownership would allow for removal of those that do not follow the guidelines ... (Unfortunately i do not think a regular hanging of Me or Tony would solve any problems).

All an
~~
do not murder, rape, enslave or harm others

-----Original Message-----
From: archytas <nwterry@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Who can we tell?

Hanging might be less cruel than suffering some of the cop, social worker and other town hall incompetence. A lot of the kids lied to me Molly - quite common in abuse cases - over stuff I could check up on. Some even tried to chat me up etc. Given we have known forever that many abuse cases are not independently witnessed and victims are incredibly easy to discredit, I'm amazed we don't routinely bug to get independent evidence - I even hid in a wardrobe to get one perp. Given people catch their nannies doing things wrong on CCTV, you'd think we could work a system out for abuse.

I've often thought we could go back to something more like village life by gating off in our existing towns.

Tony is probably the only one of us who gets hung regularly.

On Thursday, October 30, 2014 8:09:33 AM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote:
Good idea Tony, hope you are never the victim. (Hmmm)

You have a job i would not envy, times are hard and will be getting harder.. It seems to me there is an ever increasing desire for war from all sides.

Been thinking about my dad and the men's coop. Considering the down slide in morality, the coop idea might have possibilities especially when coupled with a gated community.
My idea is the community would be owned by the coop .. ( say a block of apartments) To become a member of the gated or coop you have to live to a set of moral commitments. (Including spousal abuse , drug use (guidelines would need to be developed. (lol right after we hang Tony for something he might do or could have done.. (",)

All an
~~
do not murder, rape, enslave or harm others

-----Original Message-----
From: "'facilitator' via \"Minds Eye\"" <minds-eye@googlegroups.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 7:21 AM
Subject: Mind's Eye Re: Who can we tell?

Iran has seem to have solved the problem by being able to hang the victim.

On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 9:40:49 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote:
BBC's 'Panorama' produced a documentary last night on 'Baby P' - Peter Connelly killed at 17 months after much abuse 7 years ago. The perpetrators were jailed, scum of little interest. There was a serious case review, generally a hapless procedure of whitewash here. It now seems this and other reports were a fix to pin blame on social services - in fact all agencies involved were useless, social services perhaps less so than the politicians and others. Obviously, no reasonable society would want this kind of vicious cover-up at all or not to know what really went on for 7 years, given we should want to put things right (the 'learning lessons' rhetoric).

Britain is an intensely secretive society. I don't even know why we got involved in the two world wars, let alone Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria. When I think of Gabby or Germans I have actually met, I have even less idea on the world wars. I doubt ignorance is my problem in this - it's just clear the general stuff we are given is bunk. When one researches social issues from war to child abuse, the reality shifts a long way from the history of Empire I was taught and the idea our politicians and bureaucracy operate in any competent way.

In another case, in Rotherham, more than 1400 victims of child sexual exploitation were further abused by all the services they encountered. In this case, a young, female Home Office researcher had her work destroyed and was threatened by two police officers who said they were going to give her name and address to the abusers. There are so many other cases I doubt I could finish writing their outline within a couple of days. This is before one thinks about our banks and business practices, and revolting breaches of trust by priests, teachers and cops.

Who can we even tell when it is almost impossible to think of any speedy and fair investigations and resolutions - or even admissions of wrong-doing by our establishments? This before you realise cops and other agencies quickly brief against victims and other complainants.

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