Sunday, June 30, 2013

Re: Mind's Eye Re: Search Engine As God

Heaven and Hell are here only , Allan ,and it is your good luck if you escape the hell and enjoy the heaven.


On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Allan H <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:
the laws of nature apply whether you know of them or not,  the same applies to man's body..  now the only guide line the soul needs to follow is 'do no harm'  but that can easily be broken..  now when your soul returns to it's natural realm how well it did in its humanize form that is another question..  you will find out your test results later RP


On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 5:23 AM, RP Singh <1234rp@gmail.com> wrote:
Apples were falling to the ground from the beginning , only man took it for granted and never thought that it was following laws of nature until Newton applied his mind and discovered the law of gravity.Similarly , Allan , man's will follows laws of Nature all the time but these very laws have not yet been discovered by man.


On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 11:38 PM, Allan H <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:
RP an apple does not have free will it is bound to the laws of nature..   you ae not bound to these laws  you have choice.


On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 6:03 PM, RP Singh <1234rp@gmail.com> wrote:
It is from unconscious Nature that all proceeds in a chain , one leading to another.' Will' is just as free as the apple falling from the tree.


On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 8:12 PM, Allan H <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't think God knows every thing that will happen..   that would create pre-destiny and that would eliminate the nature of free will..  Free will is an important part of this exam our souls are involved in by taking the life exam. You have to be able to chose your own solutions to the problems life puts before you.

I do find the computer idea interesting.. and an interesting way of putting it..  as the economy .. as for over size institutions..  well maybe the Canadians have it right by over regulating them..  there economy has not gone through the bubble and bursts that all of our economies have..  the US economy started the down hill slid with Reaganomics and deregulating the banks and Markets..   all that did was open the doors for the greedy and slimy souls to  practice their ideas at the expense of the population..  the proper name for politicians, bankers and cawyers in the US is "cockroach"

As for new or unique ideas I did see one  the other day..  (completely off topic --  yet watch the video)
http://bgobeyond.com/


On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 3:02 PM, archytas <nwterry@gmail.com> wrote:
It is true this idea can't resist your initial critique Allan.  The metaphor is a  bit shaky and we have seen it before as Laplace's Demon and its situation knowing everything that has happened and everything that will.  The author's points can be found at the link.  They aren't about god as any of us might consider he/she/it.

Students make Francis' point all the time - but they actually don't know 'how to google' in any depth.  Sites like Wiki and the BBC have given them information that satisfies teachers in schools, but they rarely find all the information and very little of the critique.  The big mess search engines throw up is pretty banal.  I'd no doubt produce more hits on a video of Maxwell eating my dentures than a listing of the details of my petrol from air machine.  I occasionally set questions like 'find the earth's major energy source and critically evaluate the efficiency of the main processes that harness it' - this is a question about the sun and such as photosynthesis, but most seem not to know this post-Google.

My own interest in this IT/IS question concerns "finance".  Finance has long had a god-like quality in my thinking - if we think of the kind of gods that would turn any moral creature to Prometheus.  Most of us in here know the plot - we should build safe homes for 2 billion people from Tornado Alley, British flood plains and on to Monsoon areas and so on.  We should take local-global catastrophe seriously and even such matters as leaving the planet or biological form longer term.  Instead we have finance acting as an unquestioned god on how we organise ourselves.  There's a free PDF on the finance curse here -http://treasureislands.org/the-finance-curse-my-new-book/

Information systems are potentially a way to free us from the finance gods without  replacing them by State capitalism.  Currently they give us more reason to worry about yet more intrusion into our lives by the powerful.  We have problems conceptualising in areas like this because terms like "transparency" are both good and bad.



On Saturday, 29 June 2013 21:57:58 UTC+1, archytas wrote:
If God did not exist – people would invent one! The development of 
human civilization requires mechanisms promoting cooperation and 
social order. One of these mechanisms is based on the idea that 
everything we do is seen and judged by God – bad deeds will be 
punished, while good ones will be rewarded (or was this Santa?). The Information Age has 
now fueled the dream that God-like omniscience and omnipotence can 
be created by man.

This is an interesting way of thinking about information systems - full free paper at http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1304/1304.3271.pdf


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Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..

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Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.

Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..

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Re: Mind's Eye Re: Search Engine As God

the laws of nature apply whether you know of them or not,  the same applies to man's body..  now the only guide line the soul needs to follow is 'do no harm'  but that can easily be broken..  now when your soul returns to it's natural realm how well it did in its humanize form that is another question..  you will find out your test results later RP


On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 5:23 AM, RP Singh <1234rp@gmail.com> wrote:
Apples were falling to the ground from the beginning , only man took it for granted and never thought that it was following laws of nature until Newton applied his mind and discovered the law of gravity.Similarly , Allan , man's will follows laws of Nature all the time but these very laws have not yet been discovered by man.


On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 11:38 PM, Allan H <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:
RP an apple does not have free will it is bound to the laws of nature..   you ae not bound to these laws  you have choice.


On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 6:03 PM, RP Singh <1234rp@gmail.com> wrote:
It is from unconscious Nature that all proceeds in a chain , one leading to another.' Will' is just as free as the apple falling from the tree.


On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 8:12 PM, Allan H <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't think God knows every thing that will happen..   that would create pre-destiny and that would eliminate the nature of free will..  Free will is an important part of this exam our souls are involved in by taking the life exam. You have to be able to chose your own solutions to the problems life puts before you.

I do find the computer idea interesting.. and an interesting way of putting it..  as the economy .. as for over size institutions..  well maybe the Canadians have it right by over regulating them..  there economy has not gone through the bubble and bursts that all of our economies have..  the US economy started the down hill slid with Reaganomics and deregulating the banks and Markets..   all that did was open the doors for the greedy and slimy souls to  practice their ideas at the expense of the population..  the proper name for politicians, bankers and cawyers in the US is "cockroach"

As for new or unique ideas I did see one  the other day..  (completely off topic --  yet watch the video)
http://bgobeyond.com/


On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 3:02 PM, archytas <nwterry@gmail.com> wrote:
It is true this idea can't resist your initial critique Allan.  The metaphor is a  bit shaky and we have seen it before as Laplace's Demon and its situation knowing everything that has happened and everything that will.  The author's points can be found at the link.  They aren't about god as any of us might consider he/she/it.

Students make Francis' point all the time - but they actually don't know 'how to google' in any depth.  Sites like Wiki and the BBC have given them information that satisfies teachers in schools, but they rarely find all the information and very little of the critique.  The big mess search engines throw up is pretty banal.  I'd no doubt produce more hits on a video of Maxwell eating my dentures than a listing of the details of my petrol from air machine.  I occasionally set questions like 'find the earth's major energy source and critically evaluate the efficiency of the main processes that harness it' - this is a question about the sun and such as photosynthesis, but most seem not to know this post-Google.

My own interest in this IT/IS question concerns "finance".  Finance has long had a god-like quality in my thinking - if we think of the kind of gods that would turn any moral creature to Prometheus.  Most of us in here know the plot - we should build safe homes for 2 billion people from Tornado Alley, British flood plains and on to Monsoon areas and so on.  We should take local-global catastrophe seriously and even such matters as leaving the planet or biological form longer term.  Instead we have finance acting as an unquestioned god on how we organise ourselves.  There's a free PDF on the finance curse here -http://treasureislands.org/the-finance-curse-my-new-book/

Information systems are potentially a way to free us from the finance gods without  replacing them by State capitalism.  Currently they give us more reason to worry about yet more intrusion into our lives by the powerful.  We have problems conceptualising in areas like this because terms like "transparency" are both good and bad.



On Saturday, 29 June 2013 21:57:58 UTC+1, archytas wrote:
If God did not exist – people would invent one! The development of 
human civilization requires mechanisms promoting cooperation and 
social order. One of these mechanisms is based on the idea that 
everything we do is seen and judged by God – bad deeds will be 
punished, while good ones will be rewarded (or was this Santa?). The Information Age has 
now fueled the dream that God-like omniscience and omnipotence can 
be created by man.

This is an interesting way of thinking about information systems - full free paper at http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1304/1304.3271.pdf


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Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.

Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..

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|_D Allan

Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.

Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..

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|_D Allan

Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.

Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..

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Re: Mind's Eye Re: Search Engine As God

Apples were falling to the ground from the beginning , only man took it for granted and never thought that it was following laws of nature until Newton applied his mind and discovered the law of gravity.Similarly , Allan , man's will follows laws of Nature all the time but these very laws have not yet been discovered by man.


On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 11:38 PM, Allan H <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:
RP an apple does not have free will it is bound to the laws of nature..   you ae not bound to these laws  you have choice.


On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 6:03 PM, RP Singh <1234rp@gmail.com> wrote:
It is from unconscious Nature that all proceeds in a chain , one leading to another.' Will' is just as free as the apple falling from the tree.


On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 8:12 PM, Allan H <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't think God knows every thing that will happen..   that would create pre-destiny and that would eliminate the nature of free will..  Free will is an important part of this exam our souls are involved in by taking the life exam. You have to be able to chose your own solutions to the problems life puts before you.

I do find the computer idea interesting.. and an interesting way of putting it..  as the economy .. as for over size institutions..  well maybe the Canadians have it right by over regulating them..  there economy has not gone through the bubble and bursts that all of our economies have..  the US economy started the down hill slid with Reaganomics and deregulating the banks and Markets..   all that did was open the doors for the greedy and slimy souls to  practice their ideas at the expense of the population..  the proper name for politicians, bankers and cawyers in the US is "cockroach"

As for new or unique ideas I did see one  the other day..  (completely off topic --  yet watch the video)
http://bgobeyond.com/


On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 3:02 PM, archytas <nwterry@gmail.com> wrote:
It is true this idea can't resist your initial critique Allan.  The metaphor is a  bit shaky and we have seen it before as Laplace's Demon and its situation knowing everything that has happened and everything that will.  The author's points can be found at the link.  They aren't about god as any of us might consider he/she/it.

Students make Francis' point all the time - but they actually don't know 'how to google' in any depth.  Sites like Wiki and the BBC have given them information that satisfies teachers in schools, but they rarely find all the information and very little of the critique.  The big mess search engines throw up is pretty banal.  I'd no doubt produce more hits on a video of Maxwell eating my dentures than a listing of the details of my petrol from air machine.  I occasionally set questions like 'find the earth's major energy source and critically evaluate the efficiency of the main processes that harness it' - this is a question about the sun and such as photosynthesis, but most seem not to know this post-Google.

My own interest in this IT/IS question concerns "finance".  Finance has long had a god-like quality in my thinking - if we think of the kind of gods that would turn any moral creature to Prometheus.  Most of us in here know the plot - we should build safe homes for 2 billion people from Tornado Alley, British flood plains and on to Monsoon areas and so on.  We should take local-global catastrophe seriously and even such matters as leaving the planet or biological form longer term.  Instead we have finance acting as an unquestioned god on how we organise ourselves.  There's a free PDF on the finance curse here -http://treasureislands.org/the-finance-curse-my-new-book/

Information systems are potentially a way to free us from the finance gods without  replacing them by State capitalism.  Currently they give us more reason to worry about yet more intrusion into our lives by the powerful.  We have problems conceptualising in areas like this because terms like "transparency" are both good and bad.



On Saturday, 29 June 2013 21:57:58 UTC+1, archytas wrote:
If God did not exist – people would invent one! The development of 
human civilization requires mechanisms promoting cooperation and 
social order. One of these mechanisms is based on the idea that 
everything we do is seen and judged by God – bad deeds will be 
punished, while good ones will be rewarded (or was this Santa?). The Information Age has 
now fueled the dream that God-like omniscience and omnipotence can 
be created by man.

This is an interesting way of thinking about information systems - full free paper at http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1304/1304.3271.pdf


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|_D Allan

Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.

Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..

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|_D Allan

Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.

Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..

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Re: Mind's Eye Re: Search Engine As God

No way possible Gabby by definition..  it is a teaching of beliefs..  and actually one with out foundation..


On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 6:45 PM, gabbydott <gabbydott@gmail.com> wrote:
From behaviourism to constructionism to connectivism, yes, Allan, by definition of God, God knows everything that will happen. :)


2013/6/30 RP Singh <1234rp@gmail.com>
It is from unconscious Nature that all proceeds in a chain , one leading to another.' Will' is just as free as the apple falling from the tree.


On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 8:12 PM, Allan H <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't think God knows every thing that will happen..   that would create pre-destiny and that would eliminate the nature of free will..  Free will is an important part of this exam our souls are involved in by taking the life exam. You have to be able to chose your own solutions to the problems life puts before you.

I do find the computer idea interesting.. and an interesting way of putting it..  as the economy .. as for over size institutions..  well maybe the Canadians have it right by over regulating them..  there economy has not gone through the bubble and bursts that all of our economies have..  the US economy started the down hill slid with Reaganomics and deregulating the banks and Markets..   all that did was open the doors for the greedy and slimy souls to  practice their ideas at the expense of the population..  the proper name for politicians, bankers and cawyers in the US is "cockroach"

As for new or unique ideas I did see one  the other day..  (completely off topic --  yet watch the video)
http://bgobeyond.com/


On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 3:02 PM, archytas <nwterry@gmail.com> wrote:
It is true this idea can't resist your initial critique Allan.  The metaphor is a  bit shaky and we have seen it before as Laplace's Demon and its situation knowing everything that has happened and everything that will.  The author's points can be found at the link.  They aren't about god as any of us might consider he/she/it.

Students make Francis' point all the time - but they actually don't know 'how to google' in any depth.  Sites like Wiki and the BBC have given them information that satisfies teachers in schools, but they rarely find all the information and very little of the critique.  The big mess search engines throw up is pretty banal.  I'd no doubt produce more hits on a video of Maxwell eating my dentures than a listing of the details of my petrol from air machine.  I occasionally set questions like 'find the earth's major energy source and critically evaluate the efficiency of the main processes that harness it' - this is a question about the sun and such as photosynthesis, but most seem not to know this post-Google.

My own interest in this IT/IS question concerns "finance".  Finance has long had a god-like quality in my thinking - if we think of the kind of gods that would turn any moral creature to Prometheus.  Most of us in here know the plot - we should build safe homes for 2 billion people from Tornado Alley, British flood plains and on to Monsoon areas and so on.  We should take local-global catastrophe seriously and even such matters as leaving the planet or biological form longer term.  Instead we have finance acting as an unquestioned god on how we organise ourselves.  There's a free PDF on the finance curse here -http://treasureislands.org/the-finance-curse-my-new-book/

Information systems are potentially a way to free us from the finance gods without  replacing them by State capitalism.  Currently they give us more reason to worry about yet more intrusion into our lives by the powerful.  We have problems conceptualising in areas like this because terms like "transparency" are both good and bad.



On Saturday, 29 June 2013 21:57:58 UTC+1, archytas wrote:
If God did not exist – people would invent one! The development of 
human civilization requires mechanisms promoting cooperation and 
social order. One of these mechanisms is based on the idea that 
everything we do is seen and judged by God – bad deeds will be 
punished, while good ones will be rewarded (or was this Santa?). The Information Age has 
now fueled the dream that God-like omniscience and omnipotence can 
be created by man.

This is an interesting way of thinking about information systems - full free paper at http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1304/1304.3271.pdf


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|_D Allan

Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.

Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..

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|_D Allan

Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.

Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..

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Re: Mind's Eye Re: Search Engine As God

RP an apple does not have free will it is bound to the laws of nature..   you ae not bound to these laws  you have choice.


On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 6:03 PM, RP Singh <1234rp@gmail.com> wrote:
It is from unconscious Nature that all proceeds in a chain , one leading to another.' Will' is just as free as the apple falling from the tree.


On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 8:12 PM, Allan H <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't think God knows every thing that will happen..   that would create pre-destiny and that would eliminate the nature of free will..  Free will is an important part of this exam our souls are involved in by taking the life exam. You have to be able to chose your own solutions to the problems life puts before you.

I do find the computer idea interesting.. and an interesting way of putting it..  as the economy .. as for over size institutions..  well maybe the Canadians have it right by over regulating them..  there economy has not gone through the bubble and bursts that all of our economies have..  the US economy started the down hill slid with Reaganomics and deregulating the banks and Markets..   all that did was open the doors for the greedy and slimy souls to  practice their ideas at the expense of the population..  the proper name for politicians, bankers and cawyers in the US is "cockroach"

As for new or unique ideas I did see one  the other day..  (completely off topic --  yet watch the video)
http://bgobeyond.com/


On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 3:02 PM, archytas <nwterry@gmail.com> wrote:
It is true this idea can't resist your initial critique Allan.  The metaphor is a  bit shaky and we have seen it before as Laplace's Demon and its situation knowing everything that has happened and everything that will.  The author's points can be found at the link.  They aren't about god as any of us might consider he/she/it.

Students make Francis' point all the time - but they actually don't know 'how to google' in any depth.  Sites like Wiki and the BBC have given them information that satisfies teachers in schools, but they rarely find all the information and very little of the critique.  The big mess search engines throw up is pretty banal.  I'd no doubt produce more hits on a video of Maxwell eating my dentures than a listing of the details of my petrol from air machine.  I occasionally set questions like 'find the earth's major energy source and critically evaluate the efficiency of the main processes that harness it' - this is a question about the sun and such as photosynthesis, but most seem not to know this post-Google.

My own interest in this IT/IS question concerns "finance".  Finance has long had a god-like quality in my thinking - if we think of the kind of gods that would turn any moral creature to Prometheus.  Most of us in here know the plot - we should build safe homes for 2 billion people from Tornado Alley, British flood plains and on to Monsoon areas and so on.  We should take local-global catastrophe seriously and even such matters as leaving the planet or biological form longer term.  Instead we have finance acting as an unquestioned god on how we organise ourselves.  There's a free PDF on the finance curse here -http://treasureislands.org/the-finance-curse-my-new-book/

Information systems are potentially a way to free us from the finance gods without  replacing them by State capitalism.  Currently they give us more reason to worry about yet more intrusion into our lives by the powerful.  We have problems conceptualising in areas like this because terms like "transparency" are both good and bad.



On Saturday, 29 June 2013 21:57:58 UTC+1, archytas wrote:
If God did not exist – people would invent one! The development of 
human civilization requires mechanisms promoting cooperation and 
social order. One of these mechanisms is based on the idea that 
everything we do is seen and judged by God – bad deeds will be 
punished, while good ones will be rewarded (or was this Santa?). The Information Age has 
now fueled the dream that God-like omniscience and omnipotence can 
be created by man.

This is an interesting way of thinking about information systems - full free paper at http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1304/1304.3271.pdf


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Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.

Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..

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Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.

Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..

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Re: Mind's Eye Re: Search Engine As God

God can know all that will happen only if the future is certain. In other words, there would only be God's will and individual wills would act in a predetermined manner , i.e. subservient to God's will.


On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 10:15 PM, gabbydott <gabbydott@gmail.com> wrote:
From behaviourism to constructionism to connectivism, yes, Allan, by definition of God, God knows everything that will happen. :)


2013/6/30 RP Singh <1234rp@gmail.com>
It is from unconscious Nature that all proceeds in a chain , one leading to another.' Will' is just as free as the apple falling from the tree.


On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 8:12 PM, Allan H <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't think God knows every thing that will happen..   that would create pre-destiny and that would eliminate the nature of free will..  Free will is an important part of this exam our souls are involved in by taking the life exam. You have to be able to chose your own solutions to the problems life puts before you.

I do find the computer idea interesting.. and an interesting way of putting it..  as the economy .. as for over size institutions..  well maybe the Canadians have it right by over regulating them..  there economy has not gone through the bubble and bursts that all of our economies have..  the US economy started the down hill slid with Reaganomics and deregulating the banks and Markets..   all that did was open the doors for the greedy and slimy souls to  practice their ideas at the expense of the population..  the proper name for politicians, bankers and cawyers in the US is "cockroach"

As for new or unique ideas I did see one  the other day..  (completely off topic --  yet watch the video)
http://bgobeyond.com/


On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 3:02 PM, archytas <nwterry@gmail.com> wrote:
It is true this idea can't resist your initial critique Allan.  The metaphor is a  bit shaky and we have seen it before as Laplace's Demon and its situation knowing everything that has happened and everything that will.  The author's points can be found at the link.  They aren't about god as any of us might consider he/she/it.

Students make Francis' point all the time - but they actually don't know 'how to google' in any depth.  Sites like Wiki and the BBC have given them information that satisfies teachers in schools, but they rarely find all the information and very little of the critique.  The big mess search engines throw up is pretty banal.  I'd no doubt produce more hits on a video of Maxwell eating my dentures than a listing of the details of my petrol from air machine.  I occasionally set questions like 'find the earth's major energy source and critically evaluate the efficiency of the main processes that harness it' - this is a question about the sun and such as photosynthesis, but most seem not to know this post-Google.

My own interest in this IT/IS question concerns "finance".  Finance has long had a god-like quality in my thinking - if we think of the kind of gods that would turn any moral creature to Prometheus.  Most of us in here know the plot - we should build safe homes for 2 billion people from Tornado Alley, British flood plains and on to Monsoon areas and so on.  We should take local-global catastrophe seriously and even such matters as leaving the planet or biological form longer term.  Instead we have finance acting as an unquestioned god on how we organise ourselves.  There's a free PDF on the finance curse here -http://treasureislands.org/the-finance-curse-my-new-book/

Information systems are potentially a way to free us from the finance gods without  replacing them by State capitalism.  Currently they give us more reason to worry about yet more intrusion into our lives by the powerful.  We have problems conceptualising in areas like this because terms like "transparency" are both good and bad.



On Saturday, 29 June 2013 21:57:58 UTC+1, archytas wrote:
If God did not exist – people would invent one! The development of 
human civilization requires mechanisms promoting cooperation and 
social order. One of these mechanisms is based on the idea that 
everything we do is seen and judged by God – bad deeds will be 
punished, while good ones will be rewarded (or was this Santa?). The Information Age has 
now fueled the dream that God-like omniscience and omnipotence can 
be created by man.

This is an interesting way of thinking about information systems - full free paper at http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1304/1304.3271.pdf


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Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.

Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..

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Re: Mind's Eye Re: Search Engine As God

From behaviourism to constructionism to connectivism, yes, Allan, by definition of God, God knows everything that will happen. :)


2013/6/30 RP Singh <1234rp@gmail.com>
It is from unconscious Nature that all proceeds in a chain , one leading to another.' Will' is just as free as the apple falling from the tree.


On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 8:12 PM, Allan H <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't think God knows every thing that will happen..   that would create pre-destiny and that would eliminate the nature of free will..  Free will is an important part of this exam our souls are involved in by taking the life exam. You have to be able to chose your own solutions to the problems life puts before you.

I do find the computer idea interesting.. and an interesting way of putting it..  as the economy .. as for over size institutions..  well maybe the Canadians have it right by over regulating them..  there economy has not gone through the bubble and bursts that all of our economies have..  the US economy started the down hill slid with Reaganomics and deregulating the banks and Markets..   all that did was open the doors for the greedy and slimy souls to  practice their ideas at the expense of the population..  the proper name for politicians, bankers and cawyers in the US is "cockroach"

As for new or unique ideas I did see one  the other day..  (completely off topic --  yet watch the video)
http://bgobeyond.com/


On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 3:02 PM, archytas <nwterry@gmail.com> wrote:
It is true this idea can't resist your initial critique Allan.  The metaphor is a  bit shaky and we have seen it before as Laplace's Demon and its situation knowing everything that has happened and everything that will.  The author's points can be found at the link.  They aren't about god as any of us might consider he/she/it.

Students make Francis' point all the time - but they actually don't know 'how to google' in any depth.  Sites like Wiki and the BBC have given them information that satisfies teachers in schools, but they rarely find all the information and very little of the critique.  The big mess search engines throw up is pretty banal.  I'd no doubt produce more hits on a video of Maxwell eating my dentures than a listing of the details of my petrol from air machine.  I occasionally set questions like 'find the earth's major energy source and critically evaluate the efficiency of the main processes that harness it' - this is a question about the sun and such as photosynthesis, but most seem not to know this post-Google.

My own interest in this IT/IS question concerns "finance".  Finance has long had a god-like quality in my thinking - if we think of the kind of gods that would turn any moral creature to Prometheus.  Most of us in here know the plot - we should build safe homes for 2 billion people from Tornado Alley, British flood plains and on to Monsoon areas and so on.  We should take local-global catastrophe seriously and even such matters as leaving the planet or biological form longer term.  Instead we have finance acting as an unquestioned god on how we organise ourselves.  There's a free PDF on the finance curse here -http://treasureislands.org/the-finance-curse-my-new-book/

Information systems are potentially a way to free us from the finance gods without  replacing them by State capitalism.  Currently they give us more reason to worry about yet more intrusion into our lives by the powerful.  We have problems conceptualising in areas like this because terms like "transparency" are both good and bad.



On Saturday, 29 June 2013 21:57:58 UTC+1, archytas wrote:
If God did not exist – people would invent one! The development of 
human civilization requires mechanisms promoting cooperation and 
social order. One of these mechanisms is based on the idea that 
everything we do is seen and judged by God – bad deeds will be 
punished, while good ones will be rewarded (or was this Santa?). The Information Age has 
now fueled the dream that God-like omniscience and omnipotence can 
be created by man.

This is an interesting way of thinking about information systems - full free paper at http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1304/1304.3271.pdf


--
 
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--
 (
  )
|_D Allan

Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.

Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..

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Re: Mind's Eye Re: Search Engine As God

It is from unconscious Nature that all proceeds in a chain , one leading to another.' Will' is just as free as the apple falling from the tree.


On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 8:12 PM, Allan H <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't think God knows every thing that will happen..   that would create pre-destiny and that would eliminate the nature of free will..  Free will is an important part of this exam our souls are involved in by taking the life exam. You have to be able to chose your own solutions to the problems life puts before you.

I do find the computer idea interesting.. and an interesting way of putting it..  as the economy .. as for over size institutions..  well maybe the Canadians have it right by over regulating them..  there economy has not gone through the bubble and bursts that all of our economies have..  the US economy started the down hill slid with Reaganomics and deregulating the banks and Markets..   all that did was open the doors for the greedy and slimy souls to  practice their ideas at the expense of the population..  the proper name for politicians, bankers and cawyers in the US is "cockroach"

As for new or unique ideas I did see one  the other day..  (completely off topic --  yet watch the video)
http://bgobeyond.com/


On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 3:02 PM, archytas <nwterry@gmail.com> wrote:
It is true this idea can't resist your initial critique Allan.  The metaphor is a  bit shaky and we have seen it before as Laplace's Demon and its situation knowing everything that has happened and everything that will.  The author's points can be found at the link.  They aren't about god as any of us might consider he/she/it.

Students make Francis' point all the time - but they actually don't know 'how to google' in any depth.  Sites like Wiki and the BBC have given them information that satisfies teachers in schools, but they rarely find all the information and very little of the critique.  The big mess search engines throw up is pretty banal.  I'd no doubt produce more hits on a video of Maxwell eating my dentures than a listing of the details of my petrol from air machine.  I occasionally set questions like 'find the earth's major energy source and critically evaluate the efficiency of the main processes that harness it' - this is a question about the sun and such as photosynthesis, but most seem not to know this post-Google.

My own interest in this IT/IS question concerns "finance".  Finance has long had a god-like quality in my thinking - if we think of the kind of gods that would turn any moral creature to Prometheus.  Most of us in here know the plot - we should build safe homes for 2 billion people from Tornado Alley, British flood plains and on to Monsoon areas and so on.  We should take local-global catastrophe seriously and even such matters as leaving the planet or biological form longer term.  Instead we have finance acting as an unquestioned god on how we organise ourselves.  There's a free PDF on the finance curse here -http://treasureislands.org/the-finance-curse-my-new-book/

Information systems are potentially a way to free us from the finance gods without  replacing them by State capitalism.  Currently they give us more reason to worry about yet more intrusion into our lives by the powerful.  We have problems conceptualising in areas like this because terms like "transparency" are both good and bad.



On Saturday, 29 June 2013 21:57:58 UTC+1, archytas wrote:
If God did not exist – people would invent one! The development of 
human civilization requires mechanisms promoting cooperation and 
social order. One of these mechanisms is based on the idea that 
everything we do is seen and judged by God – bad deeds will be 
punished, while good ones will be rewarded (or was this Santa?). The Information Age has 
now fueled the dream that God-like omniscience and omnipotence can 
be created by man.

This is an interesting way of thinking about information systems - full free paper at http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1304/1304.3271.pdf


--
 
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--
 (
  )
|_D Allan

Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.

Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..

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Re: Mind's Eye Re: Search Engine As God

I don't think God knows every thing that will happen..   that would create pre-destiny and that would eliminate the nature of free will..  Free will is an important part of this exam our souls are involved in by taking the life exam. You have to be able to chose your own solutions to the problems life puts before you.

I do find the computer idea interesting.. and an interesting way of putting it..  as the economy .. as for over size institutions..  well maybe the Canadians have it right by over regulating them..  there economy has not gone through the bubble and bursts that all of our economies have..  the US economy started the down hill slid with Reaganomics and deregulating the banks and Markets..   all that did was open the doors for the greedy and slimy souls to  practice their ideas at the expense of the population..  the proper name for politicians, bankers and cawyers in the US is "cockroach"

As for new or unique ideas I did see one  the other day..  (completely off topic --  yet watch the video)
http://bgobeyond.com/


On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 3:02 PM, archytas <nwterry@gmail.com> wrote:
It is true this idea can't resist your initial critique Allan.  The metaphor is a  bit shaky and we have seen it before as Laplace's Demon and its situation knowing everything that has happened and everything that will.  The author's points can be found at the link.  They aren't about god as any of us might consider he/she/it.

Students make Francis' point all the time - but they actually don't know 'how to google' in any depth.  Sites like Wiki and the BBC have given them information that satisfies teachers in schools, but they rarely find all the information and very little of the critique.  The big mess search engines throw up is pretty banal.  I'd no doubt produce more hits on a video of Maxwell eating my dentures than a listing of the details of my petrol from air machine.  I occasionally set questions like 'find the earth's major energy source and critically evaluate the efficiency of the main processes that harness it' - this is a question about the sun and such as photosynthesis, but most seem not to know this post-Google.

My own interest in this IT/IS question concerns "finance".  Finance has long had a god-like quality in my thinking - if we think of the kind of gods that would turn any moral creature to Prometheus.  Most of us in here know the plot - we should build safe homes for 2 billion people from Tornado Alley, British flood plains and on to Monsoon areas and so on.  We should take local-global catastrophe seriously and even such matters as leaving the planet or biological form longer term.  Instead we have finance acting as an unquestioned god on how we organise ourselves.  There's a free PDF on the finance curse here -http://treasureislands.org/the-finance-curse-my-new-book/

Information systems are potentially a way to free us from the finance gods without  replacing them by State capitalism.  Currently they give us more reason to worry about yet more intrusion into our lives by the powerful.  We have problems conceptualising in areas like this because terms like "transparency" are both good and bad.



On Saturday, 29 June 2013 21:57:58 UTC+1, archytas wrote:
If God did not exist – people would invent one! The development of 
human civilization requires mechanisms promoting cooperation and 
social order. One of these mechanisms is based on the idea that 
everything we do is seen and judged by God – bad deeds will be 
punished, while good ones will be rewarded (or was this Santa?). The Information Age has 
now fueled the dream that God-like omniscience and omnipotence can 
be created by man.

This is an interesting way of thinking about information systems - full free paper at http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1304/1304.3271.pdf


--
 
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--
 (
  )
|_D Allan

Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.

Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..

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Mind's Eye Re: Search Engine As God

It is true this idea can't resist your initial critique Allan.  The metaphor is a  bit shaky and we have seen it before as Laplace's Demon and its situation knowing everything that has happened and everything that will.  The author's points can be found at the link.  They aren't about god as any of us might consider he/she/it.

Students make Francis' point all the time - but they actually don't know 'how to google' in any depth.  Sites like Wiki and the BBC have given them information that satisfies teachers in schools, but they rarely find all the information and very little of the critique.  The big mess search engines throw up is pretty banal.  I'd no doubt produce more hits on a video of Maxwell eating my dentures than a listing of the details of my petrol from air machine.  I occasionally set questions like 'find the earth's major energy source and critically evaluate the efficiency of the main processes that harness it' - this is a question about the sun and such as photosynthesis, but most seem not to know this post-Google.

My own interest in this IT/IS question concerns "finance".  Finance has long had a god-like quality in my thinking - if we think of the kind of gods that would turn any moral creature to Prometheus.  Most of us in here know the plot - we should build safe homes for 2 billion people from Tornado Alley, British flood plains and on to Monsoon areas and so on.  We should take local-global catastrophe seriously and even such matters as leaving the planet or biological form longer term.  Instead we have finance acting as an unquestioned god on how we organise ourselves.  There's a free PDF on the finance curse here -http://treasureislands.org/the-finance-curse-my-new-book/

Information systems are potentially a way to free us from the finance gods without  replacing them by State capitalism.  Currently they give us more reason to worry about yet more intrusion into our lives by the powerful.  We have problems conceptualising in areas like this because terms like "transparency" are both good and bad.



On Saturday, 29 June 2013 21:57:58 UTC+1, archytas wrote:
If God did not exist – people would invent one! The development of 
human civilization requires mechanisms promoting cooperation and 
social order. One of these mechanisms is based on the idea that 
everything we do is seen and judged by God – bad deeds will be 
punished, while good ones will be rewarded (or was this Santa?). The Information Age has 
now fueled the dream that God-like omniscience and omnipotence can 
be created by man.

This is an interesting way of thinking about information systems - full free paper at http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1304/1304.3271.pdf


--
 
---
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Re: Mind's Eye Search Engine As God

good to read you Francis.. it is an interesting idea.. though in many ways it has a few  actually many flaws..  basicly one is they do not take into the fact that God is real..  information does not create God.. yes it to some degree can predict actions.  I see the attempt in advertizing supposedly directed at me,,  lol  it really is a joke..  more of a dream as to what they want me into..  not my interest at all. 

what i see as they are failing to take into account is the entire universe is made up of "God"  it with the concept of free will you essentially have the eternal souls of everything acting as one giant computer with everything contributing its data per say

it could be a way of explaining the impossible to explain,,  but it does not account for the soul,  yet what  I see is an effort to understand the creator..  Personally I think it is the direction things are heading ,, a search for God outside traditional beliefs..  Wonder when they are going to realize The soul is real and remembers (data) all that it has done, and combine that data wit all the data of the other souls you have one giant computer  the created everything.. 

hmm  im thinking  but it is an interesting angle to view it from



On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 1:00 AM, Francis Hunt <francis.hunt@gmail.com> wrote:
True story: The bishop visited a school class to test the childrens' religious knowledge before he gave them Confirmation. He asked, "If you wanted to know more about God, where would you go, what would you do?"

The answer came promptly from the back of the class ...

"I'd google him!"


On 29 June 2013 22:57, archytas <nwterry@gmail.com> wrote:
If God did not exist – people would invent one! The development of 
human civilization requires mechanisms promoting cooperation and 
social order. One of these mechanisms is based on the idea that 
everything we do is seen and judged by God – bad deeds will be 
punished, while good ones will be rewarded (or was this Santa?). The Information Age has 
now fueled the dream that God-like omniscience and omnipotence can 
be created by man.

This is an interesting way of thinking about information systems - full free paper at http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1304/1304.3271.pdf


--
 
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--
Francis Hunt
http://francishunt.blogspot.de/

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--
 (
  )
|_D Allan

Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.

Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..

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Saturday, June 29, 2013

Re: Mind's Eye Search Engine As God

True story: The bishop visited a school class to test the childrens' religious knowledge before he gave them Confirmation. He asked, "If you wanted to know more about God, where would you go, what would you do?"

The answer came promptly from the back of the class ...

"I'd google him!"


On 29 June 2013 22:57, archytas <nwterry@gmail.com> wrote:
If God did not exist – people would invent one! The development of 
human civilization requires mechanisms promoting cooperation and 
social order. One of these mechanisms is based on the idea that 
everything we do is seen and judged by God – bad deeds will be 
punished, while good ones will be rewarded (or was this Santa?). The Information Age has 
now fueled the dream that God-like omniscience and omnipotence can 
be created by man.

This is an interesting way of thinking about information systems - full free paper at http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1304/1304.3271.pdf


--
 
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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
 
 



--
Francis Hunt
http://francishunt.blogspot.de/

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Re: Fwd: Bhutan Is No Shangri-La - NYTimes.com

Something is changing now a days. Opinions are galloping a beautiful horse right now. Hope nobody gets mad on people's opinions.
BB Gurung.
USA
From: grg kumarklt <grg_kumarklt@yahoo.com>
To: "bhutaneserefugee@googlegroups.com" <bhutaneserefugee@googlegroups.com>; "friendsreunion@googlegroups.com" <friendsreunion@googlegroups.com>; "bhutanese-artists@googlegroups.com" <bhutanese-artists@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 2:48 PM
Subject: Fw: Fwd: Bhutan Is No Shangri-La - NYTimes.com

Very nice article!

Kumar Gurung
Nebraska

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Nicholasbc <nicholasbc@aol.com>
To: Kumar Gurung <grg_kumarklt@yahoo.com>; Joan Carnaby <jcarnaby@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 5:33 AM
Subject: Fwd: Bhutan Is No Shangri-La - NYTimes.com


This excellent article was sent to me by my old friend Ed Rasmussen, of Ft. Calhoun,
I would suggest that everyone read it, especially Jill Flynn.
Sent from my iPad

Begin forwarded message:

From: Edward Rasmussen <fp@abbnebraska.com>
Date: June 28, 2013 11:35:17 PM CDT
To: nicholasbc@aol.com
Subject: Bhutan Is No Shangri-La - NYTimes.com



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