Saturday, May 30, 2015

Re: Mind's Eye Re: Awareness

We did have a great run that is very true. I know I  am tired of trying to stimulate the group..
In it ln a way is sad..
But on the bright side I will not have to find weird topics to stimulate the group. .  Guess it became over crowded with know nothings. That is with a few exceptions.

Oh well  good run

On May 30, 2015 11:38 PM, "Molly" <mollyb363@gmail.com> wrote:
I guess the party is over, my friend. We had a good run.

On Saturday, May 30, 2015 at 2:44:19 PM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote:

am playing with a new computer
Rumi is only partially right..  Awareness the idea came after rereading a book I read over 40 years ago..
Looks like no one is around Neil has been silent looks  like you and I are alone ..

تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others
   

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Mind's Eye Re: Awareness

I guess the party is over, my friend. We had a good run.

On Saturday, May 30, 2015 at 2:44:19 PM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote:

am playing with a new computer
Rumi is only partially right..  Awareness the idea came after rereading a book I read over 40 years ago..
Looks like no one is around Neil has been silent looks  like you and I are alone ..

تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others
   

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Mind's Eye Re: Awareness

am playing with a new computer
Rumi is only partially right..  Awareness the idea came after rereading a book I read over 40 years ago..
Looks like no one is around Neil has been silent looks  like you and I are alone ..

تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others
   

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Friday, May 29, 2015

Re: Mind's Eye Re: Awareness

Only in away Rumi is right.
I was reading a book that I  read over 40 years ago. The ancient law reads do no harm. If none do as you will. As one becomes aware God and you naturally  turn away from causing harm.
If one nakes no attempt at becoming aware during a perdon life span upon death they wiĺl have little to be aware of.
It seems Churches including atheism try yo discourage awareness.

تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others

-----Original Message-----
From: Molly <mollyb363@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com, allanh1946@gmail.com
Sent: Tue, 26 May 2015 12:36 AM
Subject: Mind's Eye Re: Awareness

I love my friends neither with my heart nor with my mind. 
Just in case…
Heart might stop. 
Mind can forget.
I love them with my soul.
Soul never stops or forgets.

~ Rumi


On Monday, May 25, 2015 at 10:56:25 AM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote:
Silence..  no emails. . Flu is past tense.  Rebuilding our garden.. putting in a wooden deck.. the boss managed to drive a stake though the cable feed, no TV, telephone or internet. Strange silence  . . . Good because  it is pleasant to read without the back ground noise. Focusing is much easier without sensory overload.

Am becoming aware of silence. .  Thought running through my brain is what if our reality is really  a predatory being always testing for "awareness"?


تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Wednesday, May 27, 2015

Fwd: Social Service: A piece of LAND 24000 KANALS beside Indus River in KPK, near kohat road for sale only 10000/-- Rs per Kanal.


SHAHZAD SHAMEEM
HERBAL CONSULTANT
LINE & Facebook ID: shahzad.shameem


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Shahzad Shameem <shahzad.shameem@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, May 27, 2015 at 2:47 PM
Subject: Social Service: A piece of LAND 24000 KANALS beside Indus River in KPK, near kohat road for sale only 10000/-- Rs per Kanal.
To: .houstonianpakistani@googlegroups.com


Dear Reader! Golden opportunity at cheapest rates. At land more than 02 Lac there are trees, beside River Indus running at peak.

Worth for:-
a. Farm Houses
b. Olive Trees Plantation
c. Calf Fattening
d. Goat Farming
e. Dairy Farming
f. Fish Farming
g. Research Point for Agriculture
h. Could be Best for University





SHAHZAD SHAMEEM
HERBAL CONSULTANT
LINE & Facebook ID: shahzad.shameem


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ENGLISH Documents" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to englishdocuments+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to englishdocuments@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/englishdocuments.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Monday, May 25, 2015

Mind's Eye Re: Awareness

I love my friends neither with my heart nor with my mind. 
Just in case…
Heart might stop. 
Mind can forget.
I love them with my soul.
Soul never stops or forgets.

~ Rumi


On Monday, May 25, 2015 at 10:56:25 AM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote:
Silence..  no emails. . Flu is past tense.  Rebuilding our garden.. putting in a wooden deck.. the boss managed to drive a stake though the cable feed, no TV, telephone or internet. Strange silence  . . . Good because  it is pleasant to read without the back ground noise. Focusing is much easier without sensory overload.

Am becoming aware of silence. .  Thought running through my brain is what if our reality is really  a predatory being always testing for "awareness"?


تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Mind's Eye Awareness

Silence..  no emails. . Flu is past tense.  Rebuilding our garden.. putting in a wooden deck.. the boss managed to drive a stake though the cable feed, no TV, telephone or internet. Strange silence  . . . Good because  it is pleasant to read without the back ground noise. Focusing is much easier without sensory overload.

Am becoming aware of silence. .  Thought running through my brain is what if our reality is really  a predatory being always testing for "awareness"?


تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Monday, May 18, 2015

Re: Mind's Eye Freedom Falls

One of the biggest change i would make would be eliminate the professional politicians. Mainly by term limits  like on the presidency of 2 terms.  Two terms being a total of two terms whether congress, senate, or president. . 2 terms is a total  of 2 terms. No retirement or perks.. end all perks provided from outside sources.  Permit only campaign donations from private citizens. . Non from any other source.. with full transparency.
Companies should not be allowed to give perks.. realities are perks are in reality bribes  and bribery is all ready illegal. .
Those corrections would be fought tooth and nail by the good old boys because they like it the way it is.. golden pocket politics..  make them provide their own  medical insurance via the government plan..
Getting control over the lawmakers would go a long way toward developing a better government.
It would be a realistic place to start.. and cost nothing.. actually would save massive amounts of money..

تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Johnson <dajohn@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Mon, 18 May 2015 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Freedom Falls

I would support the FAIR TAX as well. I also want to see less money wasted whether it is in the military or anywhere else. Allowing private citizens to decide where their money went might go a long way to getting that money where the "people" want it. Defense would be at the top of my list but I reckon it might not even be on yours. If we were to replace your "Republican party" with "Executive branch" I would agree with you 100% there as well. Even the term "neo liberal" has gone through several changes since the 30's. I think I agree with the definition Democrats hate the most. Kinda "What would Obama do?" -then I would most likely support the opposite. Except killing terrorists; I support him in that. 

 I think with the constant news cycle and instant saturation we could dispense with traditional ways of collecting taxes and do a modern way of "get the money where it needs to be" THe first thing I 'd lower would be politicians perks. They are loaded. 

dj


On Sunday, May 17, 2015 at 1:42:04 PM UTC-5, Allan Heretic wrote:
Everyone needs to pay their FAIR share of taxes based on income.. the special tax breaks for the extremely wealthy need to end..

There are a lot of problems.  Tax avoidance is a major problem. Wasting money on the military is another. The unconstutional patriots act needs to be totally negated and the NSA disassembled. (Seems like that is a program developed by the Republican party to give them absolute control )

There is a lot that needs to be done like bring back constitutional law. We need to escape from  republican dictatorship. . Incidentally the Nazi ruling elite move a lot of their families out of Germany because they saw what was happening. .

تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com>
To: Minds Eye <mind...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sun, 17 May 2015 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Freedom Falls

The ability to communicate is important, yes. Sometimes this takes enormous effort, however, and frankly most of us are too busy, too illinformed, too lazy or, I'm sad to say, too stupid to do so. I'm probably at least 3 of those myself hell I probably shouldn't even be allowed to vote. I agree there's very little difference between our choices of government these days. I see things really going to hell fairly soon. High debt, monetary easing, interest rates already practically at 0 and unemployment at record levels despite the lies fed us by our governments. What if China goes bankrupt? Who's going to loan us money? I wouldn't put it past the current administration to just steal from those they think have too much already. Alexander Hamilton would not approve. The Republic would officially be over as, in my mind, it already is unofficially. 

Too many have a cavalier attitude about debt. We are spoiled beyond belief. You say, Neil, that "neo-liberalism" has failed. I submit the enormous prosperity brought on by freer markets since the turn of the 18th century and the wealth this has generated and the inventions and progress flowing from business friendly environs and global trade has been truly fantastic. Has it all been sunshine and roses? Well, no. Those two wars were certainly inconveinant. Breaking up Ma Bell and Standard Oil were neccesary to protect us from the excesses of Capitalism. It is time to protect ourselves from the excesses of Socialism. Actually, I believe it is past time to break up the monopoly the Federal Government has become. I'll take Thatcher in drag over Obama's redistribution tactics any day of the week and Sunday too. 

Along with this excess of prosperity has come lethargy and atrophy. Resting on our laurels as it were. Steadily eroding society's ability to recover on our own. We've become such a Nanny State here in the USA many feel no obligation to provide for their families. We EXPECT the police to protect us, the government to provide us with shelter and food in emergencies(or all the time in some cases) and to always have a doctor available for free when we are sick. This is hugely difficult to achieve in opulent times and impossible when the fecal matter hits the rotary oscillator and blood is running in the streets. This expectation cripples our chances of meaningful recovery. Same with the bank bailouts. Does anyone think they would have loaned so irresponsibly if they thought they'd be covering their own losses? It's going to happen again because we have no accountability. The politicians and bankers that created the sub-prime mortgage mess are still in power for the most part(or soon will be, yes, I mean the Clintons) and richer then ever. I don't begrudge them riches it just chaffs my backside how they got it. Liars and theives. Investing your money, taking calculated risks and winning some and losing others is part of the game. Too many have rigged the system by stacking the deck with favorable regulations, taxes, tariffs and laws. This is crony capitalism and it's what we have and I hate it. In my mind, if government didn't have the massive power and influence they currently have things would be more competitive and therefore more friendly to us consumers. Starve the beast. 

Why are you anti austerity? Should Greece be rewarded, yet again, for their duplicity and mismanagement? I agree that Germany is probably the best of all of us Western countries at productivity. I submit much of their troubles comes from trying to fund other country's cock-ups. That's better then going to war again, certainly, but one would hope some of these other countries would start taking better care of themselves. But really, why should they? 

One good thing about Obama giving Saudi Arabia and Israel and various other "so-called" friendly nations the finger and trying to cozy up to "Death to America!" Iran is that it should be a wake up call to them. Hey SA, maybe when we ask you nicely to drill for more oil you shoud accomodate us for a few months to help us over the hump. Hey Israel, maybe you shouldn't steal our military secrets. Payback is a bitch; especially when it's served cold. 

On Sun, May 17, 2015 at 2:51 AM, <allan...@gmail.com> wrote:
It is very good to read your input again Neil..  still want to see a cricket match. And i have not forgotten. .   But it will take some planning before hand as i have to make travel  and lodging  reservations. 

تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others

-----Original Message-----
From: archytas <nwt...@gmail.com>
To: mind...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, 17 May 2015 8:24 AM
Subject: Mind's Eye Freedom Falls

We used to be able to think that if we obeyed the law, "they" would leave us alone..  I doubt this was ever true.  When the "social contract" is broken the idea is that we revolt.  The threat of this revolt is supposed to control those in power.  "Mob rule" has changed over the years and we have great fear of revolution and perhaps now view it in terms of the famous Russian curse 'may you live in interesting times'.  Molly framed this in terms of 'cops and robbers' - the largely black protests about their treatment by cops and the Establishment - yet seen as riots against police violence.  This situation is complex, not least because most of us want protection against so many of the people the police take action against.  Tony gets a lot of this right in his question about whether you want to call cops or a mob.  Writ larger than this we have seen the old Soviet empire collapse and the Arab springs.  Democracy and transitional economics have not worked even though many 'braved the bullets' and we have seen elections.  The election situation is close to that in Germany when the Nazis and Communists were putting themselves up for election with the express intent of having no more elections - think the Muslim Brotherhood and the situation in Iran.

I think we should be overthrowing government.  Yet I hardly want the 'interesting times' many in the Middle East are suffering or the riots in Baltimore or those in the UK, which spread like wildfire after the shooting of Mark Duggan.  I want an end to the state terrorism that has long existed in "empire".  There are only 22 countries (out of about 180) that Britain did not invade in empire days, the US having almost caught up on this list of shame.  Yet I also don't want to live under foreign jackboots or Sharia Law.

In recent UK elections I voted Green.  I would have voted for the Scottish National Party, given the chance, but I live in England.  This is because the SNP is a Scandinavian-style social democratic  and anti-austerity party.  Our Labour Party in now an anachronism and fit only for dissolution.  I had no real vote for anything I would support and our first-past-the-post system is a paradigm in decadent decay - to the extent Britain feels increasingly fascist.  I say this having lived and worked in the old Soviet block best described as the USSR (four words four lies) and Middle Eastern terror states (best described by an old Iraqi friend disgusted by Saddam, but who said 'at least he keeps the Mullahs off our backs).  Political choice in the UK and US is really no choice at all - we essentially "choose" one form of neo-liberalism or the other.  This is really not unlike the "choice" in Soviet or third-world voting systems where there is a one-party state.  Karl Popper said it mattered much less who we elect and much more what control we have over those who get in power.  We have lost a great deal of this control.  Blair was elected here on our democratic urges, yet became Thatcher in drag and a disgusting war criminal.  I even suspect Thatcher would have kept us out of Iraq and Afghanistan.  Of course, we never got to vote as a public about the wars since WW2,that have claimed more than 25 million and have many more living in "interesting times".

Now, many living in these interesting times are trying to flee them and we face massive immigration pressures from countries freed from the Soviet yolk and various dictatorships we have deposed.  There is other blow-back too.  Francis mentioned the 'rough beast' of WB Yeats the other day and I now dream of something vile to come - the the dream content is empty of what this will be.  I think this content may be empty because it is played out in the main media theatre that flows past our eyes.  We are hands-on in almost nothing these days, as clueless as undergraduates in the theatre of corrupt higher education.  Hardly any literature tries to deal with the reality - there is no Belassario producing anything other than government propaganda.

We are living in an Emperor's New Clothes age.  I defy anyone to read and understand company accounts and what is passed in front of us government statistics.  It takes me days to find killer entries in the accounts of even disasters like Tesco and even then one can only find the money trail to a £250 million hole that is really £6.4 billion one.  I can vouch that we are being lied to on the economy and could argue this on the quants, but there is almost no point in a society where most are innumerate.  Much business accounting and economics is expressed like this:

1. The Conservatives won a majority in the election.
2. Forget this 'majority' is 37% of those eligible to vote.
3. Forget that 10 million we not registered to vote ("majority" down to 20%)
4. Lots more forgetting that votes only matter in 14% of our constituencies and only 20% of people in them ...

The "majority" is achieved by influencing perhaps as few of 5% of the total population.

Freedom has fallen because we are not capable of rational discussion.  Answer - lets educate everyone to be capable of rational discussion - a great Catch 22 as we are obviously no good at education.  Arghh! 




--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Mind's Eye Freedom Falls

I'm not against hard work Don or fair shares and fair play.  And I don't approve hand-outs to people who screwed up through idleness, free-riding and so on - though this also raises issues about inherited wealth and idle bastards with it. These groups do us a lot of harm.  I see the current financial system collapsing and I want it to.  It's corrupt and we know it is.  It isn't that far off me being able to buy your house with a pair of socks because I can value both of them at a price convenient to me.  This is what they are doing in valuing financial assets.  We need something else and we obviously don't want 20's and 30's depression or the kind of inflation that hit Germany.  I'm always struck that Germany between-the-wars was both the most scientific and cultured nation and full of idiots prepared to vote for parties that would bring an end to democracy.

The aim of socialism was for the state to wither away, and 'starve the beast' has a lot of that in it.  My own sense of this pile of crap is we need new analysis.  We have all kinds of people doing what they think is mega-maths that is no better than bent accounting by the Mafia, education that doesn't work and makes people compliant and dumb and false history oozing at us all over the place, not least in US cop and superhero shows, and whatever goes on in video games. Bleeding heart liberals are no use whatsoever, yet what we have conventionally called the right is no sensible option at all.

Because it's all such a cock up, I think we must al have what the problems are wrong.  

On Sunday, May 17, 2015 at 12:40:36 PM UTC+1, Don Johnson wrote:
The ability to communicate is important, yes. Sometimes this takes enormous effort, however, and frankly most of us are too busy, too illinformed, too lazy or, I'm sad to say, too stupid to do so. I'm probably at least 3 of those myself hell I probably shouldn't even be allowed to vote. I agree there's very little difference between our choices of government these days. I see things really going to hell fairly soon. High debt, monetary easing, interest rates already practically at 0 and unemployment at record levels despite the lies fed us by our governments. What if China goes bankrupt? Who's going to loan us money? I wouldn't put it past the current administration to just steal from those they think have too much already. Alexander Hamilton would not approve. The Republic would officially be over as, in my mind, it already is unofficially. 

Too many have a cavalier attitude about debt. We are spoiled beyond belief. You say, Neil, that "neo-liberalism" has failed. I submit the enormous prosperity brought on by freer markets since the turn of the 18th century and the wealth this has generated and the inventions and progress flowing from business friendly environs and global trade has been truly fantastic. Has it all been sunshine and roses? Well, no. Those two wars were certainly inconveinant. Breaking up Ma Bell and Standard Oil were neccesary to protect us from the excesses of Capitalism. It is time to protect ourselves from the excesses of Socialism. Actually, I believe it is past time to break up the monopoly the Federal Government has become. I'll take Thatcher in drag over Obama's redistribution tactics any day of the week and Sunday too. 

Along with this excess of prosperity has come lethargy and atrophy. Resting on our laurels as it were. Steadily eroding society's ability to recover on our own. We've become such a Nanny State here in the USA many feel no obligation to provide for their families. We EXPECT the police to protect us, the government to provide us with shelter and food in emergencies(or all the time in some cases) and to always have a doctor available for free when we are sick. This is hugely difficult to achieve in opulent times and impossible when the fecal matter hits the rotary oscillator and blood is running in the streets. This expectation cripples our chances of meaningful recovery. Same with the bank bailouts. Does anyone think they would have loaned so irresponsibly if they thought they'd be covering their own losses? It's going to happen again because we have no accountability. The politicians and bankers that created the sub-prime mortgage mess are still in power for the most part(or soon will be, yes, I mean the Clintons) and richer then ever. I don't begrudge them riches it just chaffs my backside how they got it. Liars and theives. Investing your money, taking calculated risks and winning some and losing others is part of the game. Too many have rigged the system by stacking the deck with favorable regulations, taxes, tariffs and laws. This is crony capitalism and it's what we have and I hate it. In my mind, if government didn't have the massive power and influence they currently have things would be more competitive and therefore more friendly to us consumers. Starve the beast. 

Why are you anti austerity? Should Greece be rewarded, yet again, for their duplicity and mismanagement? I agree that Germany is probably the best of all of us Western countries at productivity. I submit much of their troubles comes from trying to fund other country's cock-ups. That's better then going to war again, certainly, but one would hope some of these other countries would start taking better care of themselves. But really, why should they? 

One good thing about Obama giving Saudi Arabia and Israel and various other "so-called" friendly nations the finger and trying to cozy up to "Death to America!" Iran is that it should be a wake up call to them. Hey SA, maybe when we ask you nicely to drill for more oil you shoud accomodate us for a few months to help us over the hump. Hey Israel, maybe you shouldn't steal our military secrets. Payback is a bitch; especially when it's served cold. 

On Sun, May 17, 2015 at 2:51 AM, <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:
It is very good to read your input again Neil..  still want to see a cricket match. And i have not forgotten. .   But it will take some planning before hand as i have to make travel  and lodging  reservations. 

تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others

-----Original Message-----
From: archytas <nwterry@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, 17 May 2015 8:24 AM
Subject: Mind's Eye Freedom Falls

We used to be able to think that if we obeyed the law, "they" would leave us alone..  I doubt this was ever true.  When the "social contract" is broken the idea is that we revolt.  The threat of this revolt is supposed to control those in power.  "Mob rule" has changed over the years and we have great fear of revolution and perhaps now view it in terms of the famous Russian curse 'may you live in interesting times'.  Molly framed this in terms of 'cops and robbers' - the largely black protests about their treatment by cops and the Establishment - yet seen as riots against police violence.  This situation is complex, not least because most of us want protection against so many of the people the police take action against.  Tony gets a lot of this right in his question about whether you want to call cops or a mob.  Writ larger than this we have seen the old Soviet empire collapse and the Arab springs.  Democracy and transitional economics have not worked even though many 'braved the bullets' and we have seen elections.  The election situation is close to that in Germany when the Nazis and Communists were putting themselves up for election with the express intent of having no more elections - think the Muslim Brotherhood and the situation in Iran.

I think we should be overthrowing government.  Yet I hardly want the 'interesting times' many in the Middle East are suffering or the riots in Baltimore or those in the UK, which spread like wildfire after the shooting of Mark Duggan.  I want an end to the state terrorism that has long existed in "empire".  There are only 22 countries (out of about 180) that Britain did not invade in empire days, the US having almost caught up on this list of shame.  Yet I also don't want to live under foreign jackboots or Sharia Law.

In recent UK elections I voted Green.  I would have voted for the Scottish National Party, given the chance, but I live in England.  This is because the SNP is a Scandinavian-style social democratic  and anti-austerity party.  Our Labour Party in now an anachronism and fit only for dissolution.  I had no real vote for anything I would support and our first-past-the-post system is a paradigm in decadent decay - to the extent Britain feels increasingly fascist.  I say this having lived and worked in the old Soviet block best described as the USSR (four words four lies) and Middle Eastern terror states (best described by an old Iraqi friend disgusted by Saddam, but who said 'at least he keeps the Mullahs off our backs).  Political choice in the UK and US is really no choice at all - we essentially "choose" one form of neo-liberalism or the other.  This is really not unlike the "choice" in Soviet or third-world voting systems where there is a one-party state.  Karl Popper said it mattered much less who we elect and much more what control we have over those who get in power.  We have lost a great deal of this control.  Blair was elected here on our democratic urges, yet became Thatcher in drag and a disgusting war criminal.  I even suspect Thatcher would have kept us out of Iraq and Afghanistan.  Of course, we never got to vote as a public about the wars since WW2,that have claimed more than 25 million and have many more living in "interesting times".

Now, many living in these interesting times are trying to flee them and we face massive immigration pressures from countries freed from the Soviet yolk and various dictatorships we have deposed.  There is other blow-back too.  Francis mentioned the 'rough beast' of WB Yeats the other day and I now dream of something vile to come - the the dream content is empty of what this will be.  I think this content may be empty because it is played out in the main media theatre that flows past our eyes.  We are hands-on in almost nothing these days, as clueless as undergraduates in the theatre of corrupt higher education.  Hardly any literature tries to deal with the reality - there is no Belassario producing anything other than government propaganda.

We are living in an Emperor's New Clothes age.  I defy anyone to read and understand company accounts and what is passed in front of us government statistics.  It takes me days to find killer entries in the accounts of even disasters like Tesco and even then one can only find the money trail to a £250 million hole that is really £6.4 billion one.  I can vouch that we are being lied to on the economy and could argue this on the quants, but there is almost no point in a society where most are innumerate.  Much business accounting and economics is expressed like this:

1. The Conservatives won a majority in the election.
2. Forget this 'majority' is 37% of those eligible to vote.
3. Forget that 10 million we not registered to vote ("majority" down to 20%)
4. Lots more forgetting that votes only matter in 14% of our constituencies and only 20% of people in them ...

The "majority" is achieved by influencing perhaps as few of 5% of the total population.

Freedom has fallen because we are not capable of rational discussion.  Answer - lets educate everyone to be capable of rational discussion - a great Catch 22 as we are obviously no good at education.  Arghh! 




--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Mind's Eye Freedom Falls

I would support the FAIR TAX as well. I also want to see less money wasted whether it is in the military or anywhere else. Allowing private citizens to decide where their money went might go a long way to getting that money where the "people" want it. Defense would be at the top of my list but I reckon it might not even be on yours. If we were to replace your "Republican party" with "Executive branch" I would agree with you 100% there as well. Even the term "neo liberal" has gone through several changes since the 30's. I think I agree with the definition Democrats hate the most. Kinda "What would Obama do?" -then I would most likely support the opposite. Except killing terrorists; I support him in that. 

 I think with the constant news cycle and instant saturation we could dispense with traditional ways of collecting taxes and do a modern way of "get the money where it needs to be" THe first thing I 'd lower would be politicians perks. They are loaded. 

dj


On Sunday, May 17, 2015 at 1:42:04 PM UTC-5, Allan Heretic wrote:
Everyone needs to pay their FAIR share of taxes based on income.. the special tax breaks for the extremely wealthy need to end..

There are a lot of problems.  Tax avoidance is a major problem. Wasting money on the military is another. The unconstutional patriots act needs to be totally negated and the NSA disassembled. (Seems like that is a program developed by the Republican party to give them absolute control )

There is a lot that needs to be done like bring back constitutional law. We need to escape from  republican dictatorship. . Incidentally the Nazi ruling elite move a lot of their families out of Germany because they saw what was happening. .

تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com>
To: Minds Eye <mind...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sun, 17 May 2015 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Freedom Falls

The ability to communicate is important, yes. Sometimes this takes enormous effort, however, and frankly most of us are too busy, too illinformed, too lazy or, I'm sad to say, too stupid to do so. I'm probably at least 3 of those myself hell I probably shouldn't even be allowed to vote. I agree there's very little difference between our choices of government these days. I see things really going to hell fairly soon. High debt, monetary easing, interest rates already practically at 0 and unemployment at record levels despite the lies fed us by our governments. What if China goes bankrupt? Who's going to loan us money? I wouldn't put it past the current administration to just steal from those they think have too much already. Alexander Hamilton would not approve. The Republic would officially be over as, in my mind, it already is unofficially. 

Too many have a cavalier attitude about debt. We are spoiled beyond belief. You say, Neil, that "neo-liberalism" has failed. I submit the enormous prosperity brought on by freer markets since the turn of the 18th century and the wealth this has generated and the inventions and progress flowing from business friendly environs and global trade has been truly fantastic. Has it all been sunshine and roses? Well, no. Those two wars were certainly inconveinant. Breaking up Ma Bell and Standard Oil were neccesary to protect us from the excesses of Capitalism. It is time to protect ourselves from the excesses of Socialism. Actually, I believe it is past time to break up the monopoly the Federal Government has become. I'll take Thatcher in drag over Obama's redistribution tactics any day of the week and Sunday too. 

Along with this excess of prosperity has come lethargy and atrophy. Resting on our laurels as it were. Steadily eroding society's ability to recover on our own. We've become such a Nanny State here in the USA many feel no obligation to provide for their families. We EXPECT the police to protect us, the government to provide us with shelter and food in emergencies(or all the time in some cases) and to always have a doctor available for free when we are sick. This is hugely difficult to achieve in opulent times and impossible when the fecal matter hits the rotary oscillator and blood is running in the streets. This expectation cripples our chances of meaningful recovery. Same with the bank bailouts. Does anyone think they would have loaned so irresponsibly if they thought they'd be covering their own losses? It's going to happen again because we have no accountability. The politicians and bankers that created the sub-prime mortgage mess are still in power for the most part(or soon will be, yes, I mean the Clintons) and richer then ever. I don't begrudge them riches it just chaffs my backside how they got it. Liars and theives. Investing your money, taking calculated risks and winning some and losing others is part of the game. Too many have rigged the system by stacking the deck with favorable regulations, taxes, tariffs and laws. This is crony capitalism and it's what we have and I hate it. In my mind, if government didn't have the massive power and influence they currently have things would be more competitive and therefore more friendly to us consumers. Starve the beast. 

Why are you anti austerity? Should Greece be rewarded, yet again, for their duplicity and mismanagement? I agree that Germany is probably the best of all of us Western countries at productivity. I submit much of their troubles comes from trying to fund other country's cock-ups. That's better then going to war again, certainly, but one would hope some of these other countries would start taking better care of themselves. But really, why should they? 

One good thing about Obama giving Saudi Arabia and Israel and various other "so-called" friendly nations the finger and trying to cozy up to "Death to America!" Iran is that it should be a wake up call to them. Hey SA, maybe when we ask you nicely to drill for more oil you shoud accomodate us for a few months to help us over the hump. Hey Israel, maybe you shouldn't steal our military secrets. Payback is a bitch; especially when it's served cold. 

On Sun, May 17, 2015 at 2:51 AM, <allan...@gmail.com> wrote:
It is very good to read your input again Neil..  still want to see a cricket match. And i have not forgotten. .   But it will take some planning before hand as i have to make travel  and lodging  reservations. 

تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others

-----Original Message-----
From: archytas <nwt...@gmail.com>
To: mind...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, 17 May 2015 8:24 AM
Subject: Mind's Eye Freedom Falls

We used to be able to think that if we obeyed the law, "they" would leave us alone..  I doubt this was ever true.  When the "social contract" is broken the idea is that we revolt.  The threat of this revolt is supposed to control those in power.  "Mob rule" has changed over the years and we have great fear of revolution and perhaps now view it in terms of the famous Russian curse 'may you live in interesting times'.  Molly framed this in terms of 'cops and robbers' - the largely black protests about their treatment by cops and the Establishment - yet seen as riots against police violence.  This situation is complex, not least because most of us want protection against so many of the people the police take action against.  Tony gets a lot of this right in his question about whether you want to call cops or a mob.  Writ larger than this we have seen the old Soviet empire collapse and the Arab springs.  Democracy and transitional economics have not worked even though many 'braved the bullets' and we have seen elections.  The election situation is close to that in Germany when the Nazis and Communists were putting themselves up for election with the express intent of having no more elections - think the Muslim Brotherhood and the situation in Iran.

I think we should be overthrowing government.  Yet I hardly want the 'interesting times' many in the Middle East are suffering or the riots in Baltimore or those in the UK, which spread like wildfire after the shooting of Mark Duggan.  I want an end to the state terrorism that has long existed in "empire".  There are only 22 countries (out of about 180) that Britain did not invade in empire days, the US having almost caught up on this list of shame.  Yet I also don't want to live under foreign jackboots or Sharia Law.

In recent UK elections I voted Green.  I would have voted for the Scottish National Party, given the chance, but I live in England.  This is because the SNP is a Scandinavian-style social democratic  and anti-austerity party.  Our Labour Party in now an anachronism and fit only for dissolution.  I had no real vote for anything I would support and our first-past-the-post system is a paradigm in decadent decay - to the extent Britain feels increasingly fascist.  I say this having lived and worked in the old Soviet block best described as the USSR (four words four lies) and Middle Eastern terror states (best described by an old Iraqi friend disgusted by Saddam, but who said 'at least he keeps the Mullahs off our backs).  Political choice in the UK and US is really no choice at all - we essentially "choose" one form of neo-liberalism or the other.  This is really not unlike the "choice" in Soviet or third-world voting systems where there is a one-party state.  Karl Popper said it mattered much less who we elect and much more what control we have over those who get in power.  We have lost a great deal of this control.  Blair was elected here on our democratic urges, yet became Thatcher in drag and a disgusting war criminal.  I even suspect Thatcher would have kept us out of Iraq and Afghanistan.  Of course, we never got to vote as a public about the wars since WW2,that have claimed more than 25 million and have many more living in "interesting times".

Now, many living in these interesting times are trying to flee them and we face massive immigration pressures from countries freed from the Soviet yolk and various dictatorships we have deposed.  There is other blow-back too.  Francis mentioned the 'rough beast' of WB Yeats the other day and I now dream of something vile to come - the the dream content is empty of what this will be.  I think this content may be empty because it is played out in the main media theatre that flows past our eyes.  We are hands-on in almost nothing these days, as clueless as undergraduates in the theatre of corrupt higher education.  Hardly any literature tries to deal with the reality - there is no Belassario producing anything other than government propaganda.

We are living in an Emperor's New Clothes age.  I defy anyone to read and understand company accounts and what is passed in front of us government statistics.  It takes me days to find killer entries in the accounts of even disasters like Tesco and even then one can only find the money trail to a £250 million hole that is really £6.4 billion one.  I can vouch that we are being lied to on the economy and could argue this on the quants, but there is almost no point in a society where most are innumerate.  Much business accounting and economics is expressed like this:

1. The Conservatives won a majority in the election.
2. Forget this 'majority' is 37% of those eligible to vote.
3. Forget that 10 million we not registered to vote ("majority" down to 20%)
4. Lots more forgetting that votes only matter in 14% of our constituencies and only 20% of people in them ...

The "majority" is achieved by influencing perhaps as few of 5% of the total population.

Freedom has fallen because we are not capable of rational discussion.  Answer - lets educate everyone to be capable of rational discussion - a great Catch 22 as we are obviously no good at education.  Arghh! 




--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Sunday, May 17, 2015

Re: Mind's Eye Freedom Falls

Everyone needs to pay their FAIR share of taxes based on income.. the special tax breaks for the extremely wealthy need to end..

There are a lot of problems.  Tax avoidance is a major problem. Wasting money on the military is another. The unconstutional patriots act needs to be totally negated and the NSA disassembled. (Seems like that is a program developed by the Republican party to give them absolute control )

There is a lot that needs to be done like bring back constitutional law. We need to escape from  republican dictatorship. . Incidentally the Nazi ruling elite move a lot of their families out of Germany because they saw what was happening. .

تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Johnson <dajohn@gmail.com>
To: Minds Eye <minds-eye@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sun, 17 May 2015 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Freedom Falls

The ability to communicate is important, yes. Sometimes this takes enormous effort, however, and frankly most of us are too busy, too illinformed, too lazy or, I'm sad to say, too stupid to do so. I'm probably at least 3 of those myself hell I probably shouldn't even be allowed to vote. I agree there's very little difference between our choices of government these days. I see things really going to hell fairly soon. High debt, monetary easing, interest rates already practically at 0 and unemployment at record levels despite the lies fed us by our governments. What if China goes bankrupt? Who's going to loan us money? I wouldn't put it past the current administration to just steal from those they think have too much already. Alexander Hamilton would not approve. The Republic would officially be over as, in my mind, it already is unofficially. 

Too many have a cavalier attitude about debt. We are spoiled beyond belief. You say, Neil, that "neo-liberalism" has failed. I submit the enormous prosperity brought on by freer markets since the turn of the 18th century and the wealth this has generated and the inventions and progress flowing from business friendly environs and global trade has been truly fantastic. Has it all been sunshine and roses? Well, no. Those two wars were certainly inconveinant. Breaking up Ma Bell and Standard Oil were neccesary to protect us from the excesses of Capitalism. It is time to protect ourselves from the excesses of Socialism. Actually, I believe it is past time to break up the monopoly the Federal Government has become. I'll take Thatcher in drag over Obama's redistribution tactics any day of the week and Sunday too. 

Along with this excess of prosperity has come lethargy and atrophy. Resting on our laurels as it were. Steadily eroding society's ability to recover on our own. We've become such a Nanny State here in the USA many feel no obligation to provide for their families. We EXPECT the police to protect us, the government to provide us with shelter and food in emergencies(or all the time in some cases) and to always have a doctor available for free when we are sick. This is hugely difficult to achieve in opulent times and impossible when the fecal matter hits the rotary oscillator and blood is running in the streets. This expectation cripples our chances of meaningful recovery. Same with the bank bailouts. Does anyone think they would have loaned so irresponsibly if they thought they'd be covering their own losses? It's going to happen again because we have no accountability. The politicians and bankers that created the sub-prime mortgage mess are still in power for the most part(or soon will be, yes, I mean the Clintons) and richer then ever. I don't begrudge them riches it just chaffs my backside how they got it. Liars and theives. Investing your money, taking calculated risks and winning some and losing others is part of the game. Too many have rigged the system by stacking the deck with favorable regulations, taxes, tariffs and laws. This is crony capitalism and it's what we have and I hate it. In my mind, if government didn't have the massive power and influence they currently have things would be more competitive and therefore more friendly to us consumers. Starve the beast. 

Why are you anti austerity? Should Greece be rewarded, yet again, for their duplicity and mismanagement? I agree that Germany is probably the best of all of us Western countries at productivity. I submit much of their troubles comes from trying to fund other country's cock-ups. That's better then going to war again, certainly, but one would hope some of these other countries would start taking better care of themselves. But really, why should they? 

One good thing about Obama giving Saudi Arabia and Israel and various other "so-called" friendly nations the finger and trying to cozy up to "Death to America!" Iran is that it should be a wake up call to them. Hey SA, maybe when we ask you nicely to drill for more oil you shoud accomodate us for a few months to help us over the hump. Hey Israel, maybe you shouldn't steal our military secrets. Payback is a bitch; especially when it's served cold. 

On Sun, May 17, 2015 at 2:51 AM, <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:
It is very good to read your input again Neil..  still want to see a cricket match. And i have not forgotten. .   But it will take some planning before hand as i have to make travel  and lodging  reservations. 

تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others

-----Original Message-----
From: archytas <nwterry@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, 17 May 2015 8:24 AM
Subject: Mind's Eye Freedom Falls

We used to be able to think that if we obeyed the law, "they" would leave us alone..  I doubt this was ever true.  When the "social contract" is broken the idea is that we revolt.  The threat of this revolt is supposed to control those in power.  "Mob rule" has changed over the years and we have great fear of revolution and perhaps now view it in terms of the famous Russian curse 'may you live in interesting times'.  Molly framed this in terms of 'cops and robbers' - the largely black protests about their treatment by cops and the Establishment - yet seen as riots against police violence.  This situation is complex, not least because most of us want protection against so many of the people the police take action against.  Tony gets a lot of this right in his question about whether you want to call cops or a mob.  Writ larger than this we have seen the old Soviet empire collapse and the Arab springs.  Democracy and transitional economics have not worked even though many 'braved the bullets' and we have seen elections.  The election situation is close to that in Germany when the Nazis and Communists were putting themselves up for election with the express intent of having no more elections - think the Muslim Brotherhood and the situation in Iran.

I think we should be overthrowing government.  Yet I hardly want the 'interesting times' many in the Middle East are suffering or the riots in Baltimore or those in the UK, which spread like wildfire after the shooting of Mark Duggan.  I want an end to the state terrorism that has long existed in "empire".  There are only 22 countries (out of about 180) that Britain did not invade in empire days, the US having almost caught up on this list of shame.  Yet I also don't want to live under foreign jackboots or Sharia Law.

In recent UK elections I voted Green.  I would have voted for the Scottish National Party, given the chance, but I live in England.  This is because the SNP is a Scandinavian-style social democratic  and anti-austerity party.  Our Labour Party in now an anachronism and fit only for dissolution.  I had no real vote for anything I would support and our first-past-the-post system is a paradigm in decadent decay - to the extent Britain feels increasingly fascist.  I say this having lived and worked in the old Soviet block best described as the USSR (four words four lies) and Middle Eastern terror states (best described by an old Iraqi friend disgusted by Saddam, but who said 'at least he keeps the Mullahs off our backs).  Political choice in the UK and US is really no choice at all - we essentially "choose" one form of neo-liberalism or the other.  This is really not unlike the "choice" in Soviet or third-world voting systems where there is a one-party state.  Karl Popper said it mattered much less who we elect and much more what control we have over those who get in power.  We have lost a great deal of this control.  Blair was elected here on our democratic urges, yet became Thatcher in drag and a disgusting war criminal.  I even suspect Thatcher would have kept us out of Iraq and Afghanistan.  Of course, we never got to vote as a public about the wars since WW2,that have claimed more than 25 million and have many more living in "interesting times".

Now, many living in these interesting times are trying to flee them and we face massive immigration pressures from countries freed from the Soviet yolk and various dictatorships we have deposed.  There is other blow-back too.  Francis mentioned the 'rough beast' of WB Yeats the other day and I now dream of something vile to come - the the dream content is empty of what this will be.  I think this content may be empty because it is played out in the main media theatre that flows past our eyes.  We are hands-on in almost nothing these days, as clueless as undergraduates in the theatre of corrupt higher education.  Hardly any literature tries to deal with the reality - there is no Belassario producing anything other than government propaganda.

We are living in an Emperor's New Clothes age.  I defy anyone to read and understand company accounts and what is passed in front of us government statistics.  It takes me days to find killer entries in the accounts of even disasters like Tesco and even then one can only find the money trail to a £250 million hole that is really £6.4 billion one.  I can vouch that we are being lied to on the economy and could argue this on the quants, but there is almost no point in a society where most are innumerate.  Much business accounting and economics is expressed like this:

1. The Conservatives won a majority in the election.
2. Forget this 'majority' is 37% of those eligible to vote.
3. Forget that 10 million we not registered to vote ("majority" down to 20%)
4. Lots more forgetting that votes only matter in 14% of our constituencies and only 20% of people in them ...

The "majority" is achieved by influencing perhaps as few of 5% of the total population.

Freedom has fallen because we are not capable of rational discussion.  Answer - lets educate everyone to be capable of rational discussion - a great Catch 22 as we are obviously no good at education.  Arghh! 




--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Mind's Eye Freedom Falls

I meant 20th century, not 18th. As in 1900. Oops.

dj



--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Mind's Eye Freedom Falls

The ability to communicate is important, yes. Sometimes this takes enormous effort, however, and frankly most of us are too busy, too illinformed, too lazy or, I'm sad to say, too stupid to do so. I'm probably at least 3 of those myself hell I probably shouldn't even be allowed to vote. I agree there's very little difference between our choices of government these days. I see things really going to hell fairly soon. High debt, monetary easing, interest rates already practically at 0 and unemployment at record levels despite the lies fed us by our governments. What if China goes bankrupt? Who's going to loan us money? I wouldn't put it past the current administration to just steal from those they think have too much already. Alexander Hamilton would not approve. The Republic would officially be over as, in my mind, it already is unofficially. 

Too many have a cavalier attitude about debt. We are spoiled beyond belief. You say, Neil, that "neo-liberalism" has failed. I submit the enormous prosperity brought on by freer markets since the turn of the 18th century and the wealth this has generated and the inventions and progress flowing from business friendly environs and global trade has been truly fantastic. Has it all been sunshine and roses? Well, no. Those two wars were certainly inconveinant. Breaking up Ma Bell and Standard Oil were neccesary to protect us from the excesses of Capitalism. It is time to protect ourselves from the excesses of Socialism. Actually, I believe it is past time to break up the monopoly the Federal Government has become. I'll take Thatcher in drag over Obama's redistribution tactics any day of the week and Sunday too. 

Along with this excess of prosperity has come lethargy and atrophy. Resting on our laurels as it were. Steadily eroding society's ability to recover on our own. We've become such a Nanny State here in the USA many feel no obligation to provide for their families. We EXPECT the police to protect us, the government to provide us with shelter and food in emergencies(or all the time in some cases) and to always have a doctor available for free when we are sick. This is hugely difficult to achieve in opulent times and impossible when the fecal matter hits the rotary oscillator and blood is running in the streets. This expectation cripples our chances of meaningful recovery. Same with the bank bailouts. Does anyone think they would have loaned so irresponsibly if they thought they'd be covering their own losses? It's going to happen again because we have no accountability. The politicians and bankers that created the sub-prime mortgage mess are still in power for the most part(or soon will be, yes, I mean the Clintons) and richer then ever. I don't begrudge them riches it just chaffs my backside how they got it. Liars and theives. Investing your money, taking calculated risks and winning some and losing others is part of the game. Too many have rigged the system by stacking the deck with favorable regulations, taxes, tariffs and laws. This is crony capitalism and it's what we have and I hate it. In my mind, if government didn't have the massive power and influence they currently have things would be more competitive and therefore more friendly to us consumers. Starve the beast. 

Why are you anti austerity? Should Greece be rewarded, yet again, for their duplicity and mismanagement? I agree that Germany is probably the best of all of us Western countries at productivity. I submit much of their troubles comes from trying to fund other country's cock-ups. That's better then going to war again, certainly, but one would hope some of these other countries would start taking better care of themselves. But really, why should they? 

One good thing about Obama giving Saudi Arabia and Israel and various other "so-called" friendly nations the finger and trying to cozy up to "Death to America!" Iran is that it should be a wake up call to them. Hey SA, maybe when we ask you nicely to drill for more oil you shoud accomodate us for a few months to help us over the hump. Hey Israel, maybe you shouldn't steal our military secrets. Payback is a bitch; especially when it's served cold. 

On Sun, May 17, 2015 at 2:51 AM, <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:
It is very good to read your input again Neil..  still want to see a cricket match. And i have not forgotten. .   But it will take some planning before hand as i have to make travel  and lodging  reservations. 

تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others

-----Original Message-----
From: archytas <nwterry@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, 17 May 2015 8:24 AM
Subject: Mind's Eye Freedom Falls

We used to be able to think that if we obeyed the law, "they" would leave us alone..  I doubt this was ever true.  When the "social contract" is broken the idea is that we revolt.  The threat of this revolt is supposed to control those in power.  "Mob rule" has changed over the years and we have great fear of revolution and perhaps now view it in terms of the famous Russian curse 'may you live in interesting times'.  Molly framed this in terms of 'cops and robbers' - the largely black protests about their treatment by cops and the Establishment - yet seen as riots against police violence.  This situation is complex, not least because most of us want protection against so many of the people the police take action against.  Tony gets a lot of this right in his question about whether you want to call cops or a mob.  Writ larger than this we have seen the old Soviet empire collapse and the Arab springs.  Democracy and transitional economics have not worked even though many 'braved the bullets' and we have seen elections.  The election situation is close to that in Germany when the Nazis and Communists were putting themselves up for election with the express intent of having no more elections - think the Muslim Brotherhood and the situation in Iran.

I think we should be overthrowing government.  Yet I hardly want the 'interesting times' many in the Middle East are suffering or the riots in Baltimore or those in the UK, which spread like wildfire after the shooting of Mark Duggan.  I want an end to the state terrorism that has long existed in "empire".  There are only 22 countries (out of about 180) that Britain did not invade in empire days, the US having almost caught up on this list of shame.  Yet I also don't want to live under foreign jackboots or Sharia Law.

In recent UK elections I voted Green.  I would have voted for the Scottish National Party, given the chance, but I live in England.  This is because the SNP is a Scandinavian-style social democratic  and anti-austerity party.  Our Labour Party in now an anachronism and fit only for dissolution.  I had no real vote for anything I would support and our first-past-the-post system is a paradigm in decadent decay - to the extent Britain feels increasingly fascist.  I say this having lived and worked in the old Soviet block best described as the USSR (four words four lies) and Middle Eastern terror states (best described by an old Iraqi friend disgusted by Saddam, but who said 'at least he keeps the Mullahs off our backs).  Political choice in the UK and US is really no choice at all - we essentially "choose" one form of neo-liberalism or the other.  This is really not unlike the "choice" in Soviet or third-world voting systems where there is a one-party state.  Karl Popper said it mattered much less who we elect and much more what control we have over those who get in power.  We have lost a great deal of this control.  Blair was elected here on our democratic urges, yet became Thatcher in drag and a disgusting war criminal.  I even suspect Thatcher would have kept us out of Iraq and Afghanistan.  Of course, we never got to vote as a public about the wars since WW2,that have claimed more than 25 million and have many more living in "interesting times".

Now, many living in these interesting times are trying to flee them and we face massive immigration pressures from countries freed from the Soviet yolk and various dictatorships we have deposed.  There is other blow-back too.  Francis mentioned the 'rough beast' of WB Yeats the other day and I now dream of something vile to come - the the dream content is empty of what this will be.  I think this content may be empty because it is played out in the main media theatre that flows past our eyes.  We are hands-on in almost nothing these days, as clueless as undergraduates in the theatre of corrupt higher education.  Hardly any literature tries to deal with the reality - there is no Belassario producing anything other than government propaganda.

We are living in an Emperor's New Clothes age.  I defy anyone to read and understand company accounts and what is passed in front of us government statistics.  It takes me days to find killer entries in the accounts of even disasters like Tesco and even then one can only find the money trail to a £250 million hole that is really £6.4 billion one.  I can vouch that we are being lied to on the economy and could argue this on the quants, but there is almost no point in a society where most are innumerate.  Much business accounting and economics is expressed like this:

1. The Conservatives won a majority in the election.
2. Forget this 'majority' is 37% of those eligible to vote.
3. Forget that 10 million we not registered to vote ("majority" down to 20%)
4. Lots more forgetting that votes only matter in 14% of our constituencies and only 20% of people in them ...

The "majority" is achieved by influencing perhaps as few of 5% of the total population.

Freedom has fallen because we are not capable of rational discussion.  Answer - lets educate everyone to be capable of rational discussion - a great Catch 22 as we are obviously no good at education.  Arghh! 




--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Mind's Eye Freedom Falls

It is very good to read your input again Neil..  still want to see a cricket match. And i have not forgotten. .   But it will take some planning before hand as i have to make travel  and lodging  reservations. 

تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others

-----Original Message-----
From: archytas <nwterry@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, 17 May 2015 8:24 AM
Subject: Mind's Eye Freedom Falls

We used to be able to think that if we obeyed the law, "they" would leave us alone..  I doubt this was ever true.  When the "social contract" is broken the idea is that we revolt.  The threat of this revolt is supposed to control those in power.  "Mob rule" has changed over the years and we have great fear of revolution and perhaps now view it in terms of the famous Russian curse 'may you live in interesting times'.  Molly framed this in terms of 'cops and robbers' - the largely black protests about their treatment by cops and the Establishment - yet seen as riots against police violence.  This situation is complex, not least because most of us want protection against so many of the people the police take action against.  Tony gets a lot of this right in his question about whether you want to call cops or a mob.  Writ larger than this we have seen the old Soviet empire collapse and the Arab springs.  Democracy and transitional economics have not worked even though many 'braved the bullets' and we have seen elections.  The election situation is close to that in Germany when the Nazis and Communists were putting themselves up for election with the express intent of having no more elections - think the Muslim Brotherhood and the situation in Iran.

I think we should be overthrowing government.  Yet I hardly want the 'interesting times' many in the Middle East are suffering or the riots in Baltimore or those in the UK, which spread like wildfire after the shooting of Mark Duggan.  I want an end to the state terrorism that has long existed in "empire".  There are only 22 countries (out of about 180) that Britain did not invade in empire days, the US having almost caught up on this list of shame.  Yet I also don't want to live under foreign jackboots or Sharia Law.

In recent UK elections I voted Green.  I would have voted for the Scottish National Party, given the chance, but I live in England.  This is because the SNP is a Scandinavian-style social democratic  and anti-austerity party.  Our Labour Party in now an anachronism and fit only for dissolution.  I had no real vote for anything I would support and our first-past-the-post system is a paradigm in decadent decay - to the extent Britain feels increasingly fascist.  I say this having lived and worked in the old Soviet block best described as the USSR (four words four lies) and Middle Eastern terror states (best described by an old Iraqi friend disgusted by Saddam, but who said 'at least he keeps the Mullahs off our backs).  Political choice in the UK and US is really no choice at all - we essentially "choose" one form of neo-liberalism or the other.  This is really not unlike the "choice" in Soviet or third-world voting systems where there is a one-party state.  Karl Popper said it mattered much less who we elect and much more what control we have over those who get in power.  We have lost a great deal of this control.  Blair was elected here on our democratic urges, yet became Thatcher in drag and a disgusting war criminal.  I even suspect Thatcher would have kept us out of Iraq and Afghanistan.  Of course, we never got to vote as a public about the wars since WW2,that have claimed more than 25 million and have many more living in "interesting times".

Now, many living in these interesting times are trying to flee them and we face massive immigration pressures from countries freed from the Soviet yolk and various dictatorships we have deposed.  There is other blow-back too.  Francis mentioned the 'rough beast' of WB Yeats the other day and I now dream of something vile to come - the the dream content is empty of what this will be.  I think this content may be empty because it is played out in the main media theatre that flows past our eyes.  We are hands-on in almost nothing these days, as clueless as undergraduates in the theatre of corrupt higher education.  Hardly any literature tries to deal with the reality - there is no Belassario producing anything other than government propaganda.

We are living in an Emperor's New Clothes age.  I defy anyone to read and understand company accounts and what is passed in front of us government statistics.  It takes me days to find killer entries in the accounts of even disasters like Tesco and even then one can only find the money trail to a £250 million hole that is really £6.4 billion one.  I can vouch that we are being lied to on the economy and could argue this on the quants, but there is almost no point in a society where most are innumerate.  Much business accounting and economics is expressed like this:

1. The Conservatives won a majority in the election.
2. Forget this 'majority' is 37% of those eligible to vote.
3. Forget that 10 million we not registered to vote ("majority" down to 20%)
4. Lots more forgetting that votes only matter in 14% of our constituencies and only 20% of people in them ...

The "majority" is achieved by influencing perhaps as few of 5% of the total population.

Freedom has fallen because we are not capable of rational discussion.  Answer - lets educate everyone to be capable of rational discussion - a great Catch 22 as we are obviously no good at education.  Arghh! 




--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.