Friday, December 20, 2013

Re: Mind's Eye mistaken origins

Much my own sentiment Ash.  We usually credit Plato, Socrates and Aristotle as very bright and I'm always easily impressed by the engineers like Archimedes and people like Aristarchus who knew Earth was round and its diameter.  Something is very wrong in our thinking and what we do.  i'm very tired of what passes before me on television, film (odd exceptions) and the internet.  As an academic I found myself surrounded more and more by people who really just hacked out the content of a few books as teaching and a professorial class writing junk (guilty myself).  Managerialists took over, from low-level clowns doing data management (giving advice like 'your website will be OK with the legislation as long  as you don't put anything on it') and thieves at the top.  

I suspect the problem is deep, like not seeing the wood for the trees.  How did these Greeks not see problems with slavery - even John Locke wrote slaves taken in just wars deserved their fate.  What is it now that we miss?  That we do is obvious in the trebling of human population in 60 years or so and what a can of worms it is to think about population control, including the Chinese having so few girls, our age balance, the vile sight of a woman dragged away for a forced abortion and even the weird situation of delaying our retirements while youth unemployment is so high.  I have my sights on work ethic and meritocracy through education.  I feel as passionate as an ex-smoker about cigarettes!

It's almost impossible to watch television without adverts for "payday loans" at 4000% - even though I watch 20 minutes late to use the fast-forward or on illegal internet sites.  The madness is writ large.  UK agriculture is worth £5 billion, yet gambling is at £49 billion.  All 17 agencies involved in a Rochdale sex abuse case are held to have failed.  Some twit comes on using words like policies and procedures.  The Obamacare netsite was a disaster.  If you look hard enough, media people look nothing like the rest of us.  Listen to the adverts carefully and you can spot the same people's voices over and over.  Xmas here is full of cooing women in the jingles.  It's so bad I'd almost welcome a Puritan purge.

My thinking often heads in the direction of a planned economy, even though the Soviet experiment was so dire.  A flood of thoughts about freedom come.  Somewhere in this my scientific and spiritual sensibilities are offended by the lack of analytic thinking and marshaled facts on how economies work.  Economics provided no relief.  Wittgenstein was prone to mention an intellectual place of safety.  I have found one can't find this, only protect oneself and family.  The sinecures of academe, like Plato's free table, are provided by 'slaves'.  One might say the same of the vast excesses of the "meritocratic oligarchy" and various scarcity-paid individuals.  Crude notions of equality don't help.  Nor does absolute freedom to do what one wants.

Yet doing what we do ...

On Thursday, 19 December 2013 04:43:03 UTC, Ash wrote:
There seems to be an impenetrable veil crafted by identity that makes us
weave a tale of vitality and protects from a colder harshness, it seems
against the suffocation of invisibility. I used to think adults were a
more dangerous variety of children and would now like to look back and
see people being people and have things fall into place. I am terrified
of the spotlight but love to scout, my myth is more favorable than the
practice it derives from like many others perhaps. I enjoy kindness but
often have to temper a strong contempt for the society I know and see,
honesty in that regard would've been the end of a young story, it would
destroy the present as well, though circumstances seem almost opposite.
Funny. Old habits and lessons are hard to overcome, I know of truth as a
trial that demands courage without an ounce of aesthetic, everything
comes from the bottom-up, but I am missing the other half of the story
(or my story). That half involves artificial boundaries arising from
identity, myth and practice (for me). It is odd to see and know but be
barred from belief.

Moving on.. :) I get the impression that what we see in dishonesty and
usury is a suspension of cultural progress, reflected in individual
maturity as an inability to mentally overcome those challenges. Those in
power have everything to gain whether in personal, professional or
governance by rewards for callous and sometimes sociopathic
manipulations. Part of the myth that perpetuates this seems to be the
prestige of success, as if it were a character virtue. On practical
grounds I agree that we need to promote and sometimes tolerate those who
are capable and willing to get the job done but very little of this is
in the public discourse, shining the light into one area moves the
problem, cockroaches are likely a fitting image in some cases. I have
heard that Germans have a similar work ethic to Americans Gabby, I
wonder if your prisons are as full. Justice resides in the eyes and
memory alone, I think.

On 12/17/2013 10:57 AM, Gabby wrote:
> Only a fool would want to take a picture of transparency and then
> render it with the right movie maker software to become a star.
> Am Sonntag, 15. Dezember 2013 21:44:34 UTC+1 schrieb archytas:
>     Origin blurrs and is forever deferred.  Our memories are
>     inventive, future mapping, capable of seeing virtual, coloured
>     worlds of the 'beige' universe and outcomes where there will be no
>     evidence only narratives.  Politicians and other crooks organise
>     for there only to be narrative recall.  We could organise now for
>     evidence to be prioritised more.  This remains tough where
>     declaring the evidence is to disclose it to the enemy as in our
>     war situations, but one can see the principle in such as the
>     Duggan Inquest.  You can google the 12 weeks of transcripts only
>     to discover 5 seconds of good CCTV would tell you more than many
>     days of testimony and deliberation.  I think we could establish
>     more 'evidence miracles' across society.  Of course, Allan and I
>     would not carry cameras on a quest for the soul.
>     On Sunday, 15 December 2013 11:20:06 UTC, Allan Heretic wrote:
>         Both Bush and Blair wanted to be the glorious war time
>         leader..  the problem there is you can not start the war..  as
>         for their making peace with god.. well I am not them,,  As for
>         the notion of the soul is not mine,,  It oddly is a concept
>         that appears to flow through all beliefs from very beginning
>         of  man through our time..  the soul is a commonality of
>         mankind..  an idea that I have been exploring  unfortunately
>         you have been dragged along with me on this journey ,  it is
>         nice to explore an idea that is true and has value..  one of
>         those rare gem stones..
>         Politicians  the old definition for a politician was a
>         professional liar..  so you can expect no more.. all one can
>         do is realize what their profession really is. In a period of
>         my life to do my job I had to become a professional liar.. I
>         Needed to become super good guy and super bad guy at the same
>         moment..  not an healthy emotional place to be in  and I did
>         pay a heavy price.. Difference is I knew the truth of who I
>         really was and so did my colleges that I worked with..  we
>         knew what was lies.. and that allows one to keep a healthy
>         orientation  toward truth,,  I could tell you anything to the
>         point off passing any lie detector test. What I could not due
>         is lie to myself..  I had to live in reality no how bad it
>         really was..   strangely knowing and searching for truth leads
>         to spirituality..  not churchianity where most people end up..
>         The ultimate search is for our origins..  in my case I find my
>         origin is in my Soul..  for me it is not a mistaken origin.
>         Matrix -- Soul rules the body
>          (           --  Do No Harm
>            )
>         [_D  Allan H
>         -----Original Message-----
>         From: archytas <>
>         To:
>         Sent: Sun, 15 Dec 2013 2:33 AM
>         Subject: Re: Mind's Eye mistaken origins
>         I have a lot of time fro what Andrew and Pol say on this.  I
>         don't approve of lying, though can see some circumstances when
>         one must.  Development of virtue on an internal basis allows
>         the dreadful state of what passes for politics and an
>         increasingly corrupt academy and media.  I don't mean any
>         attack on Allan's notion of soul here, or religious
>         development that is genuinely universal, or philosophy in
>         terms of 'unbewitching language'.  It's that point at with the
>         likes of Blair and Bush lay claim to have made peace with god
>         when they are concealing their dirty hands.  At times in the
>         past truth was no concern, only who was speaking and I feel we
>         are now stuck with an elite doing exactly this.  We have whole
>         disciplines like economics and most business teaching that
>         have no basis in truth or free enquiry.  I believe this is
>         part of deep-rooted elitism that starts with the classics,
>         tragedy and virtue ethics that is little more than
>         rationalisation.  The free table was part of this, so even
>         communism has root in slavery.  amongst other things this has
>         left us with an education system focused on material most
>         can't really get into.
>         Here I can say 'All British are liars.  I am British' sure
>         that all this means concerns cracking a few grins.  In
>         philosophy the second proposition is counterexample to the
>         first.  Both cannot be true in a certain view of language
>         logic, but we are aware of the ironic meaning.  I never took
>         much to 'all swans are white, therefore there are no black
>         swans'.  There turned out to be some in Australia, but in more
>         modern language the clue is they have black pigmentation round
>         the eyes and could genetically manipulate that in the main
>         body feathers.  There is a long history from Socrates' doxa,
>         through Bacon's Idols, Descartes' radical doubt, Nietzsche's
>         more radical doubt, Wittgenstein's biological-iconic view of
>         language to more recent work (Dan Sperber) that we have
>         argument wrong.  I want to doubt without leaving us in an
>         anything goes morality or relying on heroes of argument like
>         politicians taking us into wars we don't want.
>         On Saturday, 14 December 2013 20:55:22 UTC, Allan Heretic wrote:
>             I ended up putting a lot of time into philosophy. In
>             starting it was not by choice and did not expect my life
>             to become an obsession.
>             I have been very blessed with people who have the ability
>             to sift through the dross and then share their precious
>             gems with me.
>             Thank You you are a treasure.
>             Matrix : Soul controls mind.
>              (            : Do No Harm
>             [_D Allan H
>             -----Original Message-----
>             From: archytas <>
>             To:
>             Sent: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 7:24 PM
>             Subject: Mind's Eye mistaken origins
>             I sunk a lot of costs in philosophy.  The stuff was around
>             at university and research was supposed to require
>             epistemology.  Some of the experience was enjoyable.  It
>             didn't shake convictions I learned in science or as a
>             detective.  Roughly put there is evidence and the rest is
>             piss and wind.  Evidence relies on audiences capable of
>             understanding and these are rare. I even bought a book
>             called 'Audiences' to learn more, but like most academic
>             books and papers, it disappointed.  You have to read an
>             awful lot of dross to find the few gems.  Whilst doing
>             this you can be suckered , even seduced by arguments that
>             convince that you are on a righteous path to truth.  The
>             Greeks, probably copying and developing more eastern work,
>             pondered a lot on virtue ethics, living in a slave economy
>             and seemingly unaware the edifice built was ideal for
>             cheats who could feign integrity; a system ideal for jerks
>             living off the labour of others and worse.
>             It's tough being honest, even to the extent one of the
>             biggest lies we are told is that honesty is the best
>             policy.  Most systems I've experienced are designed to
>             prevent honesty.  We use manners, etiquette and due
>             process instead.  Evidence is replaced by human recall of
>             what it was.  We have chronic problems because of this.
>              Most of us are lousy eye-witnesses.  I want to argue we
>             are trapped in Greek origins, the mentality of an elite
>             who routinely allowed and justified slavery.
>             Anyone any ideas?
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