Re: Mind's Eye trust

Sounds Freudian. Blaming the leaders is like blaming parents and
doesn't pass the "ignorance is no excuse" plea.

On Jun 14, 1:35 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I agree with you Gabby,,  like the idea of political leaders becoming
> unfit,,that can apply to business and church  leaders also; with rare
> exception,
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 2:55 AM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > There is a lot common to left and right positions - most of the
> > arguments of both contain the same fallacies.  I mean who in their
> > right mind would suggest the way forward lies in creating Soviet or
> > Maoist Paradise?  Or the pathetic road to serfdom under the world's
> > plutocrats?  I rather like the idea of a union of free workers from
> > Eurasia to the UK, but the Nazis were the last to advocate that.  We
> > talk about democracy as though there is one we can point to'  Iran has
> > elections tomorrow and like the Soviets you can vote for a choice or
> > leader from a list chosen by the real government (all hard-liners, or
> > moderate hard-liners, or one hard-line moderate) - but were Brown-
> > Cameron or Obama-Romney our choices (less so in the UK as we don't
> > have primaries).
> > Deep down, the races that produce leaders are entirely unfit at - er -
> > producing leaders.  They are as relevant as sports in producing
> > personalities.  Anyone who can survive in our political parties learns
> > the political game and is thus unfit to be a representative.  Left and
> > right are both neo-liberal and as voters we are so ignorant
> > psychopaths convince us more readily than decent people.  There are
> > many alternatives given modern technology and sortition.  Now we can't
> > even vote for a full-employment economy.
> > The right has long wanted freedom from government, the left government
> > that frees us from government we don't vote for.  Maybe we all want
> > freedom from something else or the roads to this are not politics as
> > we have the stuff?
>
> > On 13 June, 21:28, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I tend to see the same principles operating on (leftish) solidarity and
> > > (righteous) tolerance. Like the Golden Calf that is never to grow old and
> > > wise enough to find its peace in a 70+ group, for instance, while life is
> > > spinning and spinning...
>
> > > 2013/6/13 Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com>
> > >  in
>
> > > > Me I am a lefty I believe in the development of mankind not the
> > individual
> > > > or the individual greed.
> > > > I can not defend my spiritual beliefs from the right.. I do not have to
> > > > defend them from the left..
>
> > > > On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 7:14 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> Class, race, religious and other shoes rarely fit rigs.  I'm not
> > > >> really an old leftie either.
>
> > > >> On 10 June, 13:01, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> > Love to hear it sometime.
>
> > > >> > On Jun 10, 7:49 am, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> > > The shoe does not fit. I would identify myself as a moderate and
> > > >> > > independent. People assume I am a Liberal/leftie...but that is
> > another
> > > >> > > story.
>
> > > >> > > On Jun 8, 5:10 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> > > > In terms of organising concepts like class rigs is a
> > conservative
> > > >> and
> > > >> > > > I'm an old leftie.  One would hope this is no reason for us not
> > to
> > > >> > > > charitable to each other on a personal basis.  And, of course,
> > none
> > > >> of
> > > >> > > > us conforms to such groups entirely.  In fact I expect everyone
> > in
> > > >> > > > this group is concerned with the collapse of civic society in
> > > >> > > > Machiavelli's terms as outlined with a few quotes above.
>
> > > >> > > > On 8 June, 09:02, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> > > > > You need to look into the activities of a lot of the rich..
> > > >>  there where
> > > >> > > > > some that were very good and honest  but many of them were no
> > > >> more than
> > > >> > > > > thieves that really did not like today give a damn about any
> > one
> > > >> else other
> > > >> > > > > than themselves..    you like glossed over history..
>
> > > >> > > > > On Sat, Jun 8, 2013 at 2:39 AM, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >> > > > > > I doubt if America could have been the success it has been
> > > >> without the
> > > >> > > > > > rich. Yes- there have been bad apples but who built the
> > > >> railroads, the
> > > >> > > > > > cities, the factories, the war supplies, the libraries, the
> > > >> private
> > > >> > > > > > universities, the medical industry, technology,etc? Money
> > won
> > > >> the
> > > >> > > > > > Civil War and WWII. Even Christ knew what was up- render to
> > > >> Caesar and
> > > >> > > > > > render unto God.
>
> > > >> > > > > > On Jun 7, 9:11 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> > > > > > > Not really Rigsy --   there is a lot of corruption and
> > > >> immorality
> > > >> > > > > > involved
> > > >> > > > > > > the rich for the most part are very self centered focusing
> > > >> mainly on
> > > >> > > > > > their
> > > >> > > > > > > interests and not those of humanity as a whole.  you can
> > > >> claim yo have
> > > >> > > > > > not
> > > >> > > > > > > done it  but you are riding on the shirt tails of those
> > who
> > > >> have..  this
> > > >> > > > > > > action only encourages them...
>
> > > >> > > > > > > the excuse of being enabled by the government and laws
> > does
> > > >> not really
> > > >> > > > > > hold
> > > >> > > > > > > water..  especially on the spiritual plane,,  sorry Rigsy
> > > >>  you have been
> > > >> > > > > > > alerted to the problem..   but do as you want
>
> > > >> > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 3:49 PM, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >> > > > > > > > The rich are enabled by the government and laws.
>
> > > >> > > > > > > > On Jun 7, 12:18 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> > > > > > > > > We could probably find something like that in Mein
> > Kampf
> > > >> too Molly.
> > > >> > > > > > > > > Andrew is on to something with the forgiveness angle.
> >  We
> > > >> might have
> > > >> > > > > > > > > to do a lot of that when it dawns on us we've been
> > had on
> > > >> a butty by
> > > >> > > > > > > > > the rich.
>
> > > >> > > > > > > > > On May 27, 1:04 pm, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > >> > > > > > > > > > Just found this in my mailbox:
>
> > > >> > > > > > > > > > "As soon as you trust yourself, you will know how to
> > > >> live." -
> > > >> > > > > > Goethe
>
> > > >> > > > > > > > > > On May 26, 4:05 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com>
> > > >> wrote:
>
> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > well Rigsy  they are lucky i do not tell others
> > how
> > > >> to do it,,
> > > >> > > > > > > >  simply
> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > because it is easy enough  ,,,  so to be
> > democratic I
> > > >> am
> > > >> > > > > > supposed to
> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > approve of the actions of the majority of those
> > that
> > > >> are raping
> > > >> > > > > > and
> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > pillaging the government to line their pockets..
> >  but
> > > >> I forget
> > > >> > > > > > you
> > > >> > > > > > > > love
> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > those ?good? guys..  defending their actions at
> > every
> > > >> turn
>
> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 11:30 PM, rigs <
> > > >> rigs...@gmail.com>
> > > >> > > > > > wrote:
> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > You are not a very good example of a democratic
> > > >> society when
> > > >> > > > > > you
> > > >> > > > > > > > talk
> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > like that Allan. No wonder it doesn't work.
> > Found a
> > > >> fake bill
> > > >> > > > > > with
> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > anti-FDR slogans when my father was in
> > Hollywood so
> > > >> the rift
> > > >> > > > > > goes
> > > >> > > > > > > > on
> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > and on, I guess. Actually, the types in Dante's
> > > >> Inferno are
> > > >> > > > > > with us
> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > still- am down to the Florentine bankers.
>
> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > On May 25, 1:51 pm, Allan H <
> > allanh1...@gmail.com>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > what Gabby sent was right..  what is the thing
> > > >> with the
> > > >> > > > > > prisoner
> > > >> > > > > > > > of war
> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > camp the US insist on keeping   or at  least
> > the
> > > >> republicans
> > > >> > > > > > > > insist on..
> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >  actually It would be fun to set up a house of
> > > >> horrors
> > > >> > > > > > > > especially built
> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >  for them..  bet in three days or less I could
> > > >> get them
> > > >> > > > > > willing
> > > >> > > > > > > >  to
> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > resign
> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > form politics and give me all their personal
> > > >> money and family
> > > >> > > > > > > > fortunes..
> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >  The problem is I am not allowed to do harm
> >  so
> > > >> sad sometimes
>
> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 8:18 PM, archytas <
> > > >> nwte...@gmail.com
>
> > > >> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lovely Gabby.
>
> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can't other than agree Molly.  I've held
> > (as
> > > >> long as
> > > >> > > > > > Allan
> > > >> > > > > > > > has his
> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > soul-god thingy) that there is far less
> > > >> individual about
> > > >> > > > > > the
> > > >> > > > > > > > human
> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > that we think - Gabby mentions a bit of the
> > > >> German for
> > > >> > > > > > gossip
> > > >> > > > > > > > in
> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > another thread and I doubt much human
> > > >> communication is much
> > > >> > > > > > > > more than
> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > this and we struggle to realise how
> > connected
> > > >> with
> > > >> > > > > > hierarchy
> > > >> > > > > > > > it is.
> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > We find ourselves working with "individuals"
> > > >> when we need
> > > >> > > > > > to
> > > >> > > > > > > > work with
> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the network.  Continuing the Freudian
>
> ...
>
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>
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