Re: Mind's Eye trust

Modern technology has become "instant gratification" for the low
information voter as well as those who think they are exercising their
voice and choice in the pursuit of "freedom" as well as a vehicle for
the disruptive types who are anti-control of any sort and form. Throw
in a whacky culture, values, daily news-spin that blurs and buries
issues and you have the basis for dysfunction. In other ages, power
has exerted the same controls whether guised in the robes of tribal
hatreds, empire or religion.//Speaking of Nazis, another SS commander
has been discovered- age 94- who slipped into America on lies unlike
the scientists who were coveted by the military.// If God didn't/
doesn't exist, we would have to invent Him to retain our sanity and
refuge.

On Jun 13, 7:55 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> There is a lot common to left and right positions - most of the
> arguments of both contain the same fallacies.  I mean who in their
> right mind would suggest the way forward lies in creating Soviet or
> Maoist Paradise?  Or the pathetic road to serfdom under the world's
> plutocrats?  I rather like the idea of a union of free workers from
> Eurasia to the UK, but the Nazis were the last to advocate that.  We
> talk about democracy as though there is one we can point to'  Iran has
> elections tomorrow and like the Soviets you can vote for a choice or
> leader from a list chosen by the real government (all hard-liners, or
> moderate hard-liners, or one hard-line moderate) - but were Brown-
> Cameron or Obama-Romney our choices (less so in the UK as we don't
> have primaries).
> Deep down, the races that produce leaders are entirely unfit at - er -
> producing leaders.  They are as relevant as sports in producing
> personalities.  Anyone who can survive in our political parties learns
> the political game and is thus unfit to be a representative.  Left and
> right are both neo-liberal and as voters we are so ignorant
> psychopaths convince us more readily than decent people.  There are
> many alternatives given modern technology and sortition.  Now we can't
> even vote for a full-employment economy.
> The right has long wanted freedom from government, the left government
> that frees us from government we don't vote for.  Maybe we all want
> freedom from something else or the roads to this are not politics as
> we have the stuff?
>
> On 13 June, 21:28, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I tend to see the same principles operating on (leftish) solidarity and
> > (righteous) tolerance. Like the Golden Calf that is never to grow old and
> > wise enough to find its peace in a 70+ group, for instance, while life is
> > spinning and spinning...
>
> > 2013/6/13 Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com>
> >  in
>
> > > Me I am a lefty I believe in the development of mankind not the individual
> > > or the individual greed.
> > > I can not defend my spiritual beliefs from the right.. I do not have to
> > > defend them from the left..
>
> > > On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 7:14 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> Class, race, religious and other shoes rarely fit rigs.  I'm not
> > >> really an old leftie either.
>
> > >> On 10 June, 13:01, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> > Love to hear it sometime.
>
> > >> > On Jun 10, 7:49 am, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> > > The shoe does not fit. I would identify myself as a moderate and
> > >> > > independent. People assume I am a Liberal/leftie...but that is another
> > >> > > story.
>
> > >> > > On Jun 8, 5:10 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> > > > In terms of organising concepts like class rigs is a conservative
> > >> and
> > >> > > > I'm an old leftie.  One would hope this is no reason for us not to
> > >> > > > charitable to each other on a personal basis.  And, of course, none
> > >> of
> > >> > > > us conforms to such groups entirely.  In fact I expect everyone in
> > >> > > > this group is concerned with the collapse of civic society in
> > >> > > > Machiavelli's terms as outlined with a few quotes above.
>
> > >> > > > On 8 June, 09:02, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> > > > > You need to look into the activities of a lot of the rich..
> > >>  there where
> > >> > > > > some that were very good and honest  but many of them were no
> > >> more than
> > >> > > > > thieves that really did not like today give a damn about any one
> > >> else other
> > >> > > > > than themselves..    you like glossed over history..
>
> > >> > > > > On Sat, Jun 8, 2013 at 2:39 AM, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> > > > > > I doubt if America could have been the success it has been
> > >> without the
> > >> > > > > > rich. Yes- there have been bad apples but who built the
> > >> railroads, the
> > >> > > > > > cities, the factories, the war supplies, the libraries, the
> > >> private
> > >> > > > > > universities, the medical industry, technology,etc? Money won
> > >> the
> > >> > > > > > Civil War and WWII. Even Christ knew what was up- render to
> > >> Caesar and
> > >> > > > > > render unto God.
>
> > >> > > > > > On Jun 7, 9:11 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> > > > > > > Not really Rigsy --   there is a lot of corruption and
> > >> immorality
> > >> > > > > > involved
> > >> > > > > > > the rich for the most part are very self centered focusing
> > >> mainly on
> > >> > > > > > their
> > >> > > > > > > interests and not those of humanity as a whole.  you can
> > >> claim yo have
> > >> > > > > > not
> > >> > > > > > > done it  but you are riding on the shirt tails of those who
> > >> have..  this
> > >> > > > > > > action only encourages them...
>
> > >> > > > > > > the excuse of being enabled by the government and laws does
> > >> not really
> > >> > > > > > hold
> > >> > > > > > > water..  especially on the spiritual plane,,  sorry Rigsy
> > >>  you have been
> > >> > > > > > > alerted to the problem..   but do as you want
>
> > >> > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 3:49 PM, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> > > > > > > > The rich are enabled by the government and laws.
>
> > >> > > > > > > > On Jun 7, 12:18 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> > > > > > > > > We could probably find something like that in Mein Kampf
> > >> too Molly.
> > >> > > > > > > > > Andrew is on to something with the forgiveness angle.  We
> > >> might have
> > >> > > > > > > > > to do a lot of that when it dawns on us we've been had on
> > >> a butty by
> > >> > > > > > > > > the rich.
>
> > >> > > > > > > > > On May 27, 1:04 pm, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> > > > > > > > > > Just found this in my mailbox:
>
> > >> > > > > > > > > > "As soon as you trust yourself, you will know how to
> > >> live." -
> > >> > > > > > Goethe
>
> > >> > > > > > > > > > On May 26, 4:05 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
>
> > >> > > > > > > > > > > well Rigsy  they are lucky i do not tell others how
> > >> to do it,,
> > >> > > > > > > >  simply
> > >> > > > > > > > > > > because it is easy enough  ,,,  so to be democratic I
> > >> am
> > >> > > > > > supposed to
> > >> > > > > > > > > > > approve of the actions of the majority of those that
> > >> are raping
> > >> > > > > > and
> > >> > > > > > > > > > > pillaging the government to line their pockets..  but
> > >> I forget
> > >> > > > > > you
> > >> > > > > > > > love
> > >> > > > > > > > > > > those ?good? guys..  defending their actions at every
> > >> turn
>
> > >> > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 11:30 PM, rigs <
> > >> rigs...@gmail.com>
> > >> > > > > > wrote:
> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > You are not a very good example of a democratic
> > >> society when
> > >> > > > > > you
> > >> > > > > > > > talk
> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > like that Allan. No wonder it doesn't work. Found a
> > >> fake bill
> > >> > > > > > with
> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > anti-FDR slogans when my father was in Hollywood so
> > >> the rift
> > >> > > > > > goes
> > >> > > > > > > > on
> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > and on, I guess. Actually, the types in Dante's
> > >> Inferno are
> > >> > > > > > with us
> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > still- am down to the Florentine bankers.
>
> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > On May 25, 1:51 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > what Gabby sent was right..  what is the thing
> > >> with the
> > >> > > > > > prisoner
> > >> > > > > > > > of war
> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > camp the US insist on keeping   or at  least the
> > >> republicans
> > >> > > > > > > > insist on..
> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >  actually It would be fun to set up a house of
> > >> horrors
> > >> > > > > > > > especially built
> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >  for them..  bet in three days or less I could
> > >> get them
> > >> > > > > > willing
> > >> > > > > > > >  to
> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > resign
> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > form politics and give me all their personal
> > >> money and family
> > >> > > > > > > > fortunes..
> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >  The problem is I am not allowed to do harm  so
> > >> sad sometimes
>
> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 8:18 PM, archytas <
> > >> nwte...@gmail.com
>
> > >> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lovely Gabby.
>
> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can't other than agree Molly.  I've held (as
> > >> long as
> > >> > > > > > Allan
> > >> > > > > > > > has his
> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > soul-god thingy) that there is far less
> > >> individual about
> > >> > > > > > the
> > >> > > > > > > > human
> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > that we think - Gabby mentions a bit of the
> > >> German for
> > >> > > > > > gossip
> > >> > > > > > > > in
> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > another thread and I doubt much human
> > >> communication is much
> > >> > > > > > > > more than
> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > this and we struggle to realise how connected
> > >> with
> > >> > > > > > hierarchy
> > >> > > > > > > > it is.
> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > We find ourselves working with "individuals"
> > >> when we need
> > >> > > > > > to
> > >> > > > > > > > work with
> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the network.  Continuing the Freudian theme,
> > >> the best
> > >> > > > > > > > individuals come
> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > from the best societies and the best societies
> > >> are made by
> > >> > > > > > the
> > >> > > > > > > > best
> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > individuals.  Gabby's ain't it so not fits that
> > >> too.  We
> > >> > > > > > now
> > >> > > > > > > > split the
> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > electron into holon, spinon and orbiton but
> > >> still struggle
> > >> > > > > > to
> > >> > > > > > > > see
> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > multiple aspects of such as trust.
>
> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 25, 9:12 am, gabbydott <
> > >> gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, it ain't.
>
> ...
>
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>
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