Re: Mind's Eye turning the world Greek

It's probably uglier than we think old friend. My guess is we can get
by on a couple of days work a week over 8 months of the year. I think
we are stuck in an ideology of the Undead. I also think we should all
do this basic work, unless too disabled (and we should build in work
for people who are disabled). We have human motivation all wrong.

On 11 Sep, 22:07, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The truth is we don't have economic practices to suit the 21st Century
> realities :
>
> 01 We need a global resource management order that puts food and health
> starved millions, environment, sustainability and renewable energy at its
> core ... not profit, not electoral populism, and certainly not this
> oligarchical status quo.
>
> 02 Much of this eddy economics swirling amongst the rich is not just a
> decadent pastime  but a waste when tested on societal needs ...
>
> the concept of competitive economics that worked in resource abundant era
> is out of date by at least 5 decades, since data on resource crunch has
> been suppressed ...
>
> the idea of markets to be conquered and captured is out of sync by a
> quarter of century, since serving the needs of people has gone altogether
> off the radar ...
>
> Neil, the facts you narrate fills in the gaps precisely, and eloquently, in
> my own felt notions ! Thank you.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, September 12, 2012 1:12:08 AM UTC+5:30, archytas wrote:
>
> > Rentiers are those who benefit from control over assets that the
> > economy needs to function, and who, therefore, grow disproportionately
> > rich as the economy develops. These proceeds are rents – revenues from
> > ownership "without working, risking, or economizing", as John Stuart
> > Mill (1848) wrote of the landlords of his day, explaining that "they
> > grow richer, as it were in their sleep". Classical economics from Adam
> > Smith onwards analysed rents, its effects, and policies towards rents,
> > but the very concept is lost on today's economics.Just as landlords
> > were the archetypal rentiers of their agricultural societies, so
> > investors, financiers and bankers are in the largest rentier sector of
> > today's financialized economies: finance controls the economy's engine
> > of growth, which is credit in all its forms. Economies obviously need
> > banking services, insurance services, and real estate development and
> > so, of course, not all of finance is "without working, risking, or
> > economizing". The problem today remains what it was in the 13th
> > century: how to isolate what is socially necessary for 'retail'
> > banking – processing payments by checks and credit cards, deciding how
> > to relend savings and new credit under normal (non-speculative)
> > conditions – from extortionate charges such as 29% interest on credit
> > cards, penalty fees and other charges in excess of what is socially
> > necessary cost-value.
>
> > Demographically, the effect of debt deflation is emigration and other
> > negative effects. For example, after Latvian property prices soared as
> > Swedish bank branches fueled the real estate bubble, living standards
> > plunged. Families had to take on a lifetime of debt in order to gain
> > the housing that was bequeathed to the country debt-free when the
> > Soviet Union broke up in 1991. When Latvia's government imposed
> > neoliberal austerity policies in 2009-10, wage levels plunged by 30
> > percent in the public sector, and private-sector wages followed the
> > decline (Sommers et al 2010). Emigration and capital flight
> > accelerated: the Economist (2010) reported that an estimated 30,000
> > Latvians were leaving every year, on a 2.2m population. In debt-
> > strapped Iceland, the census reported in 2011 that 8% of the
> > population had emigrated (mainly to Norway).
> > Read more at
> >http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2012/09/getting-economics-to-acknowled...
>
> > Greece is just one example of what may befall us all.  I'm past caring
> > on a personal basis and even scared that most of what I would see as a
> > solution was actioned by the Nazis.  We need something to replace the
> > rich, but this can't just be a change of faces.
>
> > On 11 Sep, 08:57, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > yeah we need a "universal party of amnesia" we could make it world wide
> > and
> > > run on everything the other parties forgot they tried..
> > > Allan
>
> > > On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 10:56 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > The scary thing about most of the solutions in our politics is they
> > > > have been tried before and failed.  Most of us have forgotten or never
> > > > knew.
>
> > > > On 10 Sep, 13:05, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Some of the issues facing us can be found here -
> > > >http://www.zerohedge.com/news/americas-middle-class-divide
>
> > > > > Greece and probably Italy would have become communist after WW2 -
> > but
> > > > > for Anglo-Saxon interference.  International money has escaped even
> > > > > war reparation and the whole business of working for a living is
> > > > > undercut by vast riches.  The real issue is about retaining
> > motivation
> > > > > to get the work we need done done.  I find the financial system
> > > > > utterly demotivating.  The answer isn't communism.
>
> > > > > It doesn't seem to matter much whether money is focused on a few
> > rich
> > > > > or centralised government.  The problem is the corruption of the
> > > > > oligarchs or politicians.  Yet try getting people to organise to do
> > > > > necessary work and you soon realise this is a process of coercion.
> > > > > The idea has to be to spread wealth widely - yet even this leaves us
> > > > > with problems of consumption and planet burning as we all become
> > > > > middle-class idiots or irresponsible carbon-footprint breeders.
>
> > > > > On 9 Sep, 22:46, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > I rather like some Marx and Lenin Don.  Our kids are being cloned
> > in
> > > > > > other ways.  I broadly agree though - but jobs as we knew them are
> > > > > > gone.  The current con is about 'working smart' and further and
> > higher
> > > > > > education providing training for that.  In round 1924 the Germans
> > > > > > sacked 25% of State workers and underwent massive bankruptcies.
> >  The
> > > > > > US lost 10 million jobs in the depression - most ending up in a
> > vast
> > > > > > military mobilisation.  I suspect you and I see freedom as linked
> > to
> > > > > > productive work, but this needs reworking.
>
> > > > > > I'd cut the school-leaving age to 14 and introduce a new form of
> > > > > > national-international service.  I'd scrap universities as we have
> > > > > > them now and introduce 7 years free post-14 education for anyone
> > > > > > wanting it.  I'd expect most of this to be non-classroom and
> > project-
> > > > > > related.  It would be good to give up to notions of people just
> > being
> > > > > > able to earn money, but I think this has always been organised.
> >  Every
> > > > > > scheme we come up with brings up control problems, either by
> > > > > > government or the rich.
>
> > > > > > On 9 Sep, 18:31, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > I can see the dissipation of the crux, as I read in the
> > thread...
>
> > > > > > > Evidence of what is subversive includes facts like the US
> > spending
> > > > 54% of tax revenue on war program and Rupert Murdoch's 175 media units
> > > > voicing in unison that Iraq war was right.
>
> > > > > > > Clearly, I am speaking of the system, order and economics. We
> > are
> > > > back to franchise barriers open only to millionaire 'gentry.'
>
> > > > --
>
> > > --
> > >  (
> > >   )
> > > |_D Allan
>
> > > Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
> > > I am a Natural Airgunner -
>
> > >  Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly.

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