Re: Mind's Eye turning the world Greek

A woman's work is never done. :-)

On Sep 11, 6:21 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It's probably uglier than we think old friend.  My guess is we can get
> by on a couple of days work a week over 8 months of the year.  I think
> we are stuck in an ideology of the Undead.  I also think we should all
> do this basic work, unless too disabled (and we should build in work
> for people who are disabled).  We have human motivation all wrong.
>
> On 11 Sep, 22:07, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > The truth is we don't have economic practices to suit the 21st Century
> > realities :
>
> > 01 We need a global resource management order that puts food and health
> > starved millions, environment, sustainability and renewable energy at its
> > core ... not profit, not electoral populism, and certainly not this
> > oligarchical status quo.
>
> > 02 Much of this eddy economics swirling amongst the rich is not just a
> > decadent pastime  but a waste when tested on societal needs ...
>
> > the concept of competitive economics that worked in resource abundant era
> > is out of date by at least 5 decades, since data on resource crunch has
> > been suppressed ...
>
> > the idea of markets to be conquered and captured is out of sync by a
> > quarter of century, since serving the needs of people has gone altogether
> > off the radar ...
>
> > Neil, the facts you narrate fills in the gaps precisely, and eloquently, in
> > my own felt notions ! Thank you.
>
> > On Wednesday, September 12, 2012 1:12:08 AM UTC+5:30, archytas wrote:
>
> > > Rentiers are those who benefit from control over assets that the
> > > economy needs to function, and who, therefore, grow disproportionately
> > > rich as the economy develops. These proceeds are rents – revenues from
> > > ownership "without working, risking, or economizing", as John Stuart
> > > Mill (1848) wrote of the landlords of his day, explaining that "they
> > > grow richer, as it were in their sleep". Classical economics from Adam
> > > Smith onwards analysed rents, its effects, and policies towards rents,
> > > but the very concept is lost on today's economics.Just as landlords
> > > were the archetypal rentiers of their agricultural societies, so
> > > investors, financiers and bankers are in the largest rentier sector of
> > > today's financialized economies: finance controls the economy's engine
> > > of growth, which is credit in all its forms. Economies obviously need
> > > banking services, insurance services, and real estate development and
> > > so, of course, not all of finance is "without working, risking, or
> > > economizing". The problem today remains what it was in the 13th
> > > century: how to isolate what is socially necessary for 'retail'
> > > banking – processing payments by checks and credit cards, deciding how
> > > to relend savings and new credit under normal (non-speculative)
> > > conditions – from extortionate charges such as 29% interest on credit
> > > cards, penalty fees and other charges in excess of what is socially
> > > necessary cost-value.
>
> > > Demographically, the effect of debt deflation is emigration and other
> > > negative effects. For example, after Latvian property prices soared as
> > > Swedish bank branches fueled the real estate bubble, living standards
> > > plunged. Families had to take on a lifetime of debt in order to gain
> > > the housing that was bequeathed to the country debt-free when the
> > > Soviet Union broke up in 1991. When Latvia's government imposed
> > > neoliberal austerity policies in 2009-10, wage levels plunged by 30
> > > percent in the public sector, and private-sector wages followed the
> > > decline (Sommers et al 2010). Emigration and capital flight
> > > accelerated: the Economist (2010) reported that an estimated 30,000
> > > Latvians were leaving every year, on a 2.2m population. In debt-
> > > strapped Iceland, the census reported in 2011 that 8% of the
> > > population had emigrated (mainly to Norway).
> > > Read more at
> > >http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2012/09/getting-economics-to-acknowled...
>
> > > Greece is just one example of what may befall us all.  I'm past caring
> > > on a personal basis and even scared that most of what I would see as a
> > > solution was actioned by the Nazis.  We need something to replace the
> > > rich, but this can't just be a change of faces.
>
> > > On 11 Sep, 08:57, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > yeah we need a "universal party of amnesia" we could make it world wide
> > > and
> > > > run on everything the other parties forgot they tried..
> > > > Allan
>
> > > > On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 10:56 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > The scary thing about most of the solutions in our politics is they
> > > > > have been tried before and failed.  Most of us have forgotten or never
> > > > > knew.
>
> > > > > On 10 Sep, 13:05, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Some of the issues facing us can be found here -
> > > > >http://www.zerohedge.com/news/americas-middle-class-divide
>
> > > > > > Greece and probably Italy would have become communist after WW2 -
> > > but
> > > > > > for Anglo-Saxon interference.  International money has escaped even
> > > > > > war reparation and the whole business of working for a living is
> > > > > > undercut by vast riches.  The real issue is about retaining
> > > motivation
> > > > > > to get the work we need done done.  I find the financial system
> > > > > > utterly demotivating.  The answer isn't communism.
>
> > > > > > It doesn't seem to matter much whether money is focused on a few
> > > rich
> > > > > > or centralised government.  The problem is the corruption of the
> > > > > > oligarchs or politicians.  Yet try getting people to organise to do
> > > > > > necessary work and you soon realise this is a process of coercion.
> > > > > > The idea has to be to spread wealth widely - yet even this leaves us
> > > > > > with problems of consumption and planet burning as we all become
> > > > > > middle-class idiots or irresponsible carbon-footprint breeders.
>
> > > > > > On 9 Sep, 22:46, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > I rather like some Marx and Lenin Don.  Our kids are being cloned
> > > in
> > > > > > > other ways.  I broadly agree though - but jobs as we knew them are
> > > > > > > gone.  The current con is about 'working smart' and further and
> > > higher
> > > > > > > education providing training for that.  In round 1924 the Germans
> > > > > > > sacked 25% of State workers and underwent massive bankruptcies.
> > >  The
> > > > > > > US lost 10 million jobs in the depression - most ending up in a
> > > vast
> > > > > > > military mobilisation.  I suspect you and I see freedom as linked
> > > to
> > > > > > > productive work, but this needs reworking.
>
> > > > > > > I'd cut the school-leaving age to 14 and introduce a new form of
> > > > > > > national-international service.  I'd scrap universities as we have
> > > > > > > them now and introduce 7 years free post-14 education for anyone
> > > > > > > wanting it.  I'd expect most of this to be non-classroom and
> > > project-
> > > > > > > related.  It would be good to give up to notions of people just
> > > being
> > > > > > > able to earn money, but I think this has always been organised.
> > >  Every
> > > > > > > scheme we come up with brings up control problems, either by
> > > > > > > government or the rich.
>
> > > > > > > On 9 Sep, 18:31, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > I can see the dissipation of the crux, as I read in the
> > > thread...
>
> > > > > > > > Evidence of what is subversive includes facts like the US
> > > spending
> > > > > 54% of tax revenue on war program and Rupert Murdoch's 175 media units
> > > > > voicing in unison that Iraq war was right.
>
> > > > > > > > Clearly, I am speaking of the system, order and economics. We
> > > are
> > > > > back to franchise barriers open only to millionaire 'gentry.'
>
> > > > > --
>
> > > > --
> > > >  (
> > > >   )
> > > > |_D Allan
>
> > > > Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
> > > > I am a Natural Airgunner -
>
> > > >  Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

--