Re: Mind's Eye Can there be any rational discussion of religion?

In a way Allan, the last bit of what you say is hardly for
religionists - they are determined not to let anyone pull at their
house of cards.

On Aug 9, 7:00 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well  I love discussing religion,,  the problem is that when you say
> something in your opinion that a major religion takes offense to..    I
> think this offense is mostly from fundamentalism..  I think the problem
> there is that  most religions are of the dead variety.
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> Beliefs have to be of the concept that they are growing and expanding with
> new ideas  a building on the foundations laid earlier  and where there are
> errors and fault found these need to be listed as a error.   Often times
> religious organizations and believers close up like clams and plug their
> ears when ever there is something they find contradicts what their pet
> documents have to say.  this the thumpers are born .
>
> My beliefs pick away  I am waiting.
> Allan
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> On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 4:06 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > A Muslim sect has been found keeping most of its members living
> > underground in squalor (Russia).  Charges will include child cruelty.
> > I'm always depressed when people want to discuss beliefs in their blue
> > and white rabbit-gods and particularly when  official religions demand
> > respect.  I think rationality disappears in religious discussion and
> > this essentially hides pretty brutal power-plays that are about
> > genetic-hierarchical manipulation.  This doesn't leave me dismissive
> > of all religion - we should be looking for more sub-conscious
> > recognition of peace and the wiles of self-deception.
>
> > Veblen argued (1910 ish) that the leisure class exert a control fraud
> > on the rest of us and that economics is essentially religious.
> > Handing political power to religious freaks as in practical Islam is
> > as mad as the days of the utterly disgusting Crusades, but one can see
> > the appeal of a way of life free of clown capitalism at the same
> > time.  Religion was once much more closely related to freeing people
> > from he master class - many of its early words are about freedom from
> > debt, debt peonage and coming home from indenture in jubilee.  The
> > real tale of kicking over the tables of temple money-lenders has some
> > parallels with current attacks on the USD as the reserve currency.
>
> > I hope it is clear I have plenty of time for, say, RP and Molly and I
> > miss Orn a lot.  Keeping ourselves honest on religion is difficult -
> > rigsy often says, effectively, debate is circular and more or less
> > meaningless, perhaps because we have cut our mutual understanding in
> > advance.  My own interest is why so much performed rationality is
> > really religious - economics is the classic.  The Governor of the Bank
> > of England is now saying no one knows what will happen in Europe and
> > hence no one knows what will happen in Blighty.  Instead of resigning
> > as a hapless incompetent he is urging the Olympic spirit on the
> > nation.  He looks like a vicar in classic C of E mode.
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> > There are various tricks in religious argumentation like 'seeing the
> > light' as a ersult of introspection not amenable to demonstration.
> > Yet we need vision of some other way to live.  I wonder what religion
> > might be without such standard manipulations?
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> > --
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> --
>  (
>   )
> |_D Allan
>
> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.

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