Re: Mind's Eye Can there be any rational discussion of religion?

Thumping is the defensive wall they use to protect their house of cards..

I have many questions even of my own beliefs..   Now personally I think Jesus was one of the greatest spiritual teachers that ever lived..

I do know that there were many great story tellers in that era,,  and  a story teller will make changes to make a story more believable.  I also know that during the period in which Jesus lived the romans had a festival of crucifying jewish preachers, I guess because they saw them as a threat of some kind,,  it was a regular event,,  I do know that on what would be and provable astrological event the eclipse of the sun occurred over Jerusalem what would be the very beginning CE.. one of my problems is was he crucified on that exact date or did it make for a better story,, and the similarities to ancient pre-christian cult?

many questions few answers

Allan 
..

On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 10:08 PM, archytas <nwterry@gmail.com> wrote:

In a way Allan, the last bit of what you say is hardly for
religionists - they are determined not to let anyone pull at their
house of cards.

On Aug 9, 7:00 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well  I love discussing religion,,  the problem is that when you say
> something in your opinion that a major religion takes offense to..    I
> think this offense is mostly from fundamentalism..  I think the problem
> there is that  most religions are of the dead variety.
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> Beliefs have to be of the concept that they are growing and expanding with
> new ideas  a building on the foundations laid earlier  and where there are
> errors and fault found these need to be listed as a error.   Often times
> religious organizations and believers close up like clams and plug their
> ears when ever there is something they find contradicts what their pet
> documents have to say.  this the thumpers are born .
>
> My beliefs pick away  I am waiting.
> Allan
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> On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 4:06 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > A Muslim sect has been found keeping most of its members living
> > underground in squalor (Russia).  Charges will include child cruelty.
> > I'm always depressed when people want to discuss beliefs in their blue
> > and white rabbit-gods and particularly when  official religions demand
> > respect.  I think rationality disappears in religious discussion and
> > this essentially hides pretty brutal power-plays that are about
> > genetic-hierarchical manipulation.  This doesn't leave me dismissive
> > of all religion - we should be looking for more sub-conscious
> > recognition of peace and the wiles of self-deception.
>
> > Veblen argued (1910 ish) that the leisure class exert a control fraud
> > on the rest of us and that economics is essentially religious.
> > Handing political power to religious freaks as in practical Islam is
> > as mad as the days of the utterly disgusting Crusades, but one can see
> > the appeal of a way of life free of clown capitalism at the same
> > time.  Religion was once much more closely related to freeing people
> > from he master class - many of its early words are about freedom from
> > debt, debt peonage and coming home from indenture in jubilee.  The
> > real tale of kicking over the tables of temple money-lenders has some
> > parallels with current attacks on the USD as the reserve currency.
>
> > I hope it is clear I have plenty of time for, say, RP and Molly and I
> > miss Orn a lot.  Keeping ourselves honest on religion is difficult -
> > rigsy often says, effectively, debate is circular and more or less
> > meaningless, perhaps because we have cut our mutual understanding in
> > advance.  My own interest is why so much performed rationality is
> > really religious - economics is the classic.  The Governor of the Bank
> > of England is now saying no one knows what will happen in Europe and
> > hence no one knows what will happen in Blighty.  Instead of resigning
> > as a hapless incompetent he is urging the Olympic spirit on the
> > nation.  He looks like a vicar in classic C of E mode.
>
> > There are various tricks in religious argumentation like 'seeing the
> > light' as a ersult of introspection not amenable to demonstration.
> > Yet we need vision of some other way to live.  I wonder what religion
> > might be without such standard manipulations?
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> > --
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> --
>  (
>   )
> |_D Allan
>
> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.

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|_D Allan

Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.

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