Mind's Eye Re: Can there be any rational discussion of religion?

Faith cannot be reasoned out. It is belief versus reality. It is also
a choice like the acceptance of various emotions.

On Aug 9, 9:06 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> A Muslim sect has been found keeping most of its members living
> underground in squalor (Russia).  Charges will include child cruelty.
> I'm always depressed when people want to discuss beliefs in their blue
> and white rabbit-gods and particularly when  official religions demand
> respect.  I think rationality disappears in religious discussion and
> this essentially hides pretty brutal power-plays that are about
> genetic-hierarchical manipulation.  This doesn't leave me dismissive
> of all religion - we should be looking for more sub-conscious
> recognition of peace and the wiles of self-deception.
>
> Veblen argued (1910 ish) that the leisure class exert a control fraud
> on the rest of us and that economics is essentially religious.
> Handing political power to religious freaks as in practical Islam is
> as mad as the days of the utterly disgusting Crusades, but one can see
> the appeal of a way of life free of clown capitalism at the same
> time.  Religion was once much more closely related to freeing people
> from he master class - many of its early words are about freedom from
> debt, debt peonage and coming home from indenture in jubilee.  The
> real tale of kicking over the tables of temple money-lenders has some
> parallels with current attacks on the USD as the reserve currency.
>
> I hope it is clear I have plenty of time for, say, RP and Molly and I
> miss Orn a lot.  Keeping ourselves honest on religion is difficult -
> rigsy often says, effectively, debate is circular and more or less
> meaningless, perhaps because we have cut our mutual understanding in
> advance.  My own interest is why so much performed rationality is
> really religious - economics is the classic.  The Governor of the Bank
> of England is now saying no one knows what will happen in Europe and
> hence no one knows what will happen in Blighty.  Instead of resigning
> as a hapless incompetent he is urging the Olympic spirit on the
> nation.  He looks like a vicar in classic C of E mode.
>
> There are various tricks in religious argumentation like 'seeing the
> light' as a ersult of introspection not amenable to demonstration.
> Yet we need vision of some other way to live.  I wonder what religion
> might be without such standard manipulations?

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