Allan
On 1 aug. 2011, at 15:08, rigsy03 <rigsy03@gmail.com> wrote:
> So the definitions of murder and slavery are arbitrary according to
> practice and opinion? How do systems control behavior? Many- by making
> one feel they do have choice, when indeed, they do not- or abuse terms
> and definition. (A slave to the almighty dollar, etc.) And who decides
> which nations have the moral edge in killing other humans? (The more
> powerful. The winner.)
>
>
>
> On Aug 1, 6:57 am, Lee Douglas <leerevdoug...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hey Rigsy,
>>
>> Well first off I'll have to say that abortion is not murder, and if we
>> agree to use the common definition of murder that is the unlawfull
>> killing of a human by another human, then if we count war as lawfull
>> that takes care of that.
>>
>> A slave is exactly what the word says it is. I would add though that
>> not including ones own children, that you enslave a person if you take
>> from them all choice, that is they make no choices at all and live by
>> your choices alone, this is the greatests of evils.
>>
>> On Jul 16, 12:29 pm, rigsy03 <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> I have a problem with your opinion about death vs. murder as it does
>>> not cover abortions or warfare which have become antiseptic and
>>> remote. But this leads to a bigger can of worms. Plus there are
>>> multiple ways to stymie free choices.//What is your definition of a
>>> "slave"?
>>
>>> On Jul 15, 3:49 am, Lee Douglas <leerevdoug...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Umm that is an interesting take on it Tony.
>>
>>>> I'm a great beliver in the right of the individual to live life how
>>>> they wish to. It comes as a by product of my other great belife yep
>>>> the 'Golden Rule' so I must disagree with you about not allowing
>>>> individuals to cuase unhappiness.
>>
>>>> If an individual wishes to life a live causeing unhappiness for all
>>>> then that is their choice and they must then take the consequences of
>>>> that choice, if that be prison or violence or whatever. I would not
>>>> curtail this right of the individual but then again, I would personly
>>>> make the choice to counter this individuals actions if turned against
>>>> me or mine, and I don't doubt that others would make the same choice
>>>> that I would.
>>
>>>> I also doubt the power of murder to change thinks for the worst for
>>>> the majority of people, the rate of murder is overall really not that
>>>> high, so I must also disagree with you on that score.
>>
>>>> For me the evilness of murder stems not from taking somebody elses
>>>> life, after all we are all destined to die, so death in and of itself
>>>> I can't see as an evil thing. Nope for me it is the taking away from
>>>> somebody all future choices, this I think is a great evil.
>>
>>>> To make a man a slave does the same. Again all attributed to my
>>>> belife in the golden rule.
>>
>>>> On Jul 14, 1:49 pm, Tony Orlow <t...@lightlink.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> On Jul 12, 5:02 am, "leerevdoug...@googlemail.com" <l...@rdfmedia.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Hey Tony,
>>
>>>>>> Indeed and I would go further and say that good and evil are wholey
>>>>>> subjective.
>>
>>>>>> Ben declares that murder is normaly counted as evil, but sometimes it
>>>>>> serves the greater good. I would ask you all to consider why exaclty
>>>>>> is it that the majority agree with this.
>>
>>>>>> In short why is murder evil?
>>
>>>>> Because we desire stability in society, and murder causes pain and
>>>>> discord, making societal progress hard for us all. Is the murderer
>>>>> evil? No, I think the murderer is sick, but society must hold the
>>>>> individual accountable for their actions in some sense, or it will
>>>>> collapse into chaos. One cannot allow individuals to cause unhappiness
>>>>> for everyone else, or no one will be happy.
>>
>>>>> Peace,
>>
>>>>> Tony
>>
>>>>>> On Jul 11, 6:31 pm, Tony Orlow <t...@lightlink.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> Hi Ben -
>>
>>>>>>> A good question, and not one that I haven't spent much time
>>>>>>> considering. Here are my thoughts.
>>
>>>>>>> One many levels, good and evil are subjective. When a cheetah kills a
>>>>>>> gazelle, that is good in the cheetah's eye and evil in the gazelle's.
>>>>>>> Indeed, our sense of what is good or bad rests first in personal
>>>>>>> pleasure and pain, and as we mature, is extended by association to
>>>>>>> include that which helps or hurts an object of attachment. For the
>>>>>>> rich, the current financial situation is good, and for the many poor
>>>>>>> it is evil. One's personal judgment is generally dependent on their
>>>>>>> perspective.
>>
>>>>>>> One the other hand, if we assume some greater good, then actions which
>>>>>>> encourage it are good, and those that set it back or hurt it are bad
>>>>>>> or even evil. For instance, for those that believe in evolution and
>>>>>>> would rather be a trillion human cells able to think on our level
>>>>>>> rather than a pool of algae, evolution may be viewed as a universally
>>>>>>> good thing. Actions that encourage it are good and those that impede
>>>>>>> it are bad. Since evolution happens on all levels, from stars to
>>>>>>> physical organism to minds and memes, one may view this as a universal
>>>>>>> good. Of course, this depends on whether one personally believes in
>>>>>>> evolution, so again, even this objective good is subjectively
>>>>>>> estimated by the individual.
>>
>>>>>>> Hope that was a valuable contribution. Have a nice day
>>
>>>>>>> Tony
>>
>>>>>>> On Jul 8, 11:16 pm, Ben <artistta...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>> I do not believe that we can define good and evil without entering
>>>>>>>> into a philosophical conversation.
>>
>>>>>>>> Good and evil are not absolute rules nor can there be a universal good
>>>>>>>> or a universal evil.
>>>>>>>> The concept of what is good and what is evil must be taught to us as a
>>>>>>>> child, because we are not born inherently good or evil.
>>
>>>>>>>> To murder is bad. However the statement does not speak of a universal
>>>>>>>> good. Murder in so many cases has been used in good ways.
>>>>>>>> Euthanization has been used to end a suffering patients life. Abortion
>>>>>>>> has been used to prevent a child from being born when childbirth could
>>>>>>>> end a mothers life. To murder is bad in many cases but not all. The
>>>>>>>> extreme case of the word murder means to kill another human being
>>>>>>>> under conditions specifically covered in law. We can not define murder
>>>>>>>> without discussing the implications. There are many instances where
>>>>>>>> murder must be re-defined as a good not a bad.
>>
>>>>>>>> A child is not born inherently good or evil. Human beings are unique
>>>>>>>> in the power of our brain. We are able to quickly associate good and
>>>>>>>> bad. These associations are learned from society, our elders and
>>>>>>>> peers. A child that is born with no contact from these influences will
>>>>>>>> associate good and evil with pain and suffering. A child with contact
>>>>>>>> from these influences will be able to conceptualize good and evil and
>>>>>>>> apply it to many different aspects of everyday life.
>>
>>>>>>>> Finally, no universal good or evil will ever be agreed upon. There is
>>>>>>>> no absolute good or bad that we must all follow. One concept can
>>>>>>>> impede on another and we must accept those societies that have a
>>>>>>>> rational way of thinking. Each society must continue to evolve these
>>>>>>>> rules and change the commandments that were made centuries ago to fit
>>>>>>>> the present day reality of life. To murder is bad, however we live in
>>>>>>>> a civilized county in which many cases of murder are legal because
>>>>>>>> they are good. No one is born inherently good or evil and our society
>>>>>>>> must continue to define every aspect of what could be good or bad in
>>>>>>>> order to teach our children and they to develop their own, more
>>>>>>>> complete understanding to be taught to their children.
>>
>>>>>>>> I challenge those of you who have read this to define an absolute good
>>>>>>>> and evil.
>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Ben Kaylor- Hide quoted text -
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