(as is generally accepted), or it's "substrate" (are you referring to
it's neurophysiology?) is "nonsense", then to what shall we credit the
great, often insightful, always engaging reactionary flourishes we
enjoy from your contributions? :)
On Jul 20, 8:19 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for that Orn. My own working theory is that much of what we
> call consciousness is nonsense _ I mean its substrate is nonsense.
> I'm broadly materialist (though once we look at these labels they have
> less significance than some attribute to them) - so I tend to believe
> consciousness in an individual is part of an adjustment to culture
> built by others and that the individual may be able to bring
> creativity to that as well as conformity. If we do something like
> trying to remember a few numbers, it seems what we draw from memory
> also contains links to what else was about the numbers when we put
> them in memory. Much the same is true for me playing a few bars from
> Orn's link ( a good time in Lancaster).
> The idea of the sub-conscious gets difficult once you look at how
> people sway each other into false decisions and reasoning - it's
> clearly not easily placed as internal of a specific individual.. This
> turns out true of consciousness too - unless one goes to a lot of
> introspective 'effort'.
>
> On Jul 20, 5:19 am, ornamentalmind <ornsmindseyes...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > For the few from different eras and cultures, here is Peggy's original
> > "Fever"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGb5IweiYG8
>
> > On Jul 19, 6:39 pm, rigsy03 <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I was happy to find Peggy Lee recorded this song though I haven't
> > > heard it- I admired her voice along with Ella Fitzgerald's. This would
> > > be a great day for Lee's "Fever". We have a heat index of 113 F.!!!
> > > Anyway, I have a pretty good memory of lyrics as mother wasn't a
> > > storybook reader and the radio and 78 rpm records were my nursery
> > > songs and stories until the nuns read to us or I could read on my own.
>
> > > On Jul 17, 1:18 pm, paradox <eadohe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Phew; got so caught up in your ballad, i was just about to singalong,
> > > > caught myself just in time. Visions of my daughter's animated
> > > > exlamation..."Yes! I knew it! I told you so!" Lol.
>
> > > > The admiration's mutual...what?? That does't sound right...? You know
> > > > what i mean...: i think i need a lie down....lol.
>
> > > > On Jul 17, 1:30 pm, rigsy03 <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > I can admire men and still not want to be one! No, paradox, "I enjoy
> > > > > being a girl..." (song)
>
> > > > > On Jul 16, 7:29 am, paradox <eadohe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > You dont know what you're missing, rigsy! lol.
>
> > > > > > On Jul 16, 12:53 pm, rigsy03 <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > I could never be a man- in body form or behavior. Thank you, Lord, for
> > > > > > > allowing me to be a female!!! :-)
>
> > > > > > > On Jul 15, 1:41 pm, paradox <eadohe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > I have quite some considerable experience of the emotional
> > > > > > > > responsiveness of the fairer sex, rigsy :) Personally, i think the
> > > > > > > > gender difference, if there is one, is more emotional maturity and
> > > > > > > > honesty than anything "structural.
>
> > > > > > > > On Jul 15, 12:04 pm, rigsy03 <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > Thank you, Tony and Paradox.
>
> > > > > > > > > Except we can clean up our hard drive!
>
> > > > > > > > > Maybe I should have said "reactions" rather than moods- esp. since
> > > > > > > > > females have the rep of being moody creatures. I'm not sure if it is
> > > > > > > > > memory or the sc that is triggered by irrational associations.
>
> > > > > > > > > On Jul 15, 3:22 am, paradox <eadohe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > Not as familiar with the terrain regarding imagination and creativity,
> > > > > > > > > > rigsy; but some thoughts; imagination probably employs the same object
> > > > > > > > > > representation and manipulation routines as event "simulation",
> > > > > > > > > > certainly occupies the same higher order region; the process is just
> > > > > > > > > > less well tethered; an analogy that comes to mind is that of the rider
> > > > > > > > > > whose handling on the reins becomes more adept the more confident he/
> > > > > > > > > > she becomes, and the more conditioned the horse gets over time.
>
> > > > > > > > > > Creativity is more difficult to pin down; my intuitive sense is that
> > > > > > > > > > it's probably defined in the versatility of transition of isomorphic
> > > > > > > > > > brain "states"; so its not so much a "discrete" attribute, but more a
> > > > > > > > > > "bell curve" function.
>
> > > > > > > > > > Difficult to say about unexplained moods; could be the result of
> > > > > > > > > > chemical or homeostatic imbalances, tensions, unresolved mental
> > > > > > > > > > phenomena, or any of a long list of things really; what do you think?
>
> > > > > > > > > > On Jul 14, 12:46 pm, rigsy03 <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > Yes- that is too technical for me. :-) I see the sc as the hidden
> > > > > > > > > > > currents of a river- at least this morning that's my view. Where do
> > > > > > > > > > > you think imagination and creativity spring from? Or unexplainable
> > > > > > > > > > > moods? Or the irrational? Don't be too technical, please.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 14, 3:36 am, paradox <eadohe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting psychoanalytic approach; i'm sort of a little closer to
> > > > > > > > > > > > the "technical" school; seems to me that dreams and phantasies are
> > > > > > > > > > > > pretty much the same "stuff" as conscious thought, but without the
> > > > > > > > > > > > coherence, constraints, and "echolocation" of input, cognition, and
> > > > > > > > > > > > the autobiographical self; in that sense, we think (neural mapping)
> > > > > > > > > > > > pretty much 24/7, conscious, subconscious, or otherwise; it's just so
> > > > > > > > > > > > much more elegant when we're conscious, or daydreaming, curiously :).
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > Re the "great conductor"; in this great cauldron of distributed
> > > > > > > > > > > > mapping, something has to "direct" and prioritise attention; that's
> > > > > > > > > > > > the job of dispositional affect (value), or emotion, through amygdala,
> > > > > > > > > > > > hippocampus, and associated wide area networks. Antonio Damasio has
> > > > > > > > > > > > produced some very interesting, very readable and easily accessible
> > > > > > > > > > > > works in this area.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 13, 1:51 pm, rigsy03 <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The "great conductor" to where? The sc may color our thoughts and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > actions but I have a problem giving it a thought process similar to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > the ego or super-ego. The fact that we cannot control our sc makes us
> > > > > > > > > > > > > want to control it- it can be dangerous or embarassing or distracting,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > for instance. I do think it adds a dramatic complexity to our thoughts
> > > > > > > > > > > > > and actions- esp. those "Freudian slips"! :-) Another possibilty is
> > > > > > > > > > > > > that the sc is a warehouse for our unresolved selves that pitch and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > twist in our minds during dreams or daydreams and sometimes influence
> > > > > > > > > > > > > solutions by interrupting logic, problem solving, comprehension or
> > > > > > > > > > > > > relationships. It may also serve the purpose of keeping us honest-
> > > > > > > > > > > > > somehow the mind has to find a balance- "acting as if" only goes so
> > > > > > > > > > > > > far.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 13, 5:13 am, paradox <eadohe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Mando, dont forget that our thoughts are also "merely things", and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > our sub-conscious also "thinks"; "emotion" is the great conductor.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 12, 2:18 pm, Mando <richsu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how are we easily swayed from our thought by merely things? is that
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