[Mind's Eye] Re: time

O.R. , clear is my favorite color !

ornamentalmind wrote:
> "…Naaaa I do not think that is what you are saying. " – Lee
>
> Lee, in many ways, it is exactly what I'm saying.
>
> First, a few examples: Color – we perceive color(s)…and different
> people perceive colors differently for one another too. And I'm not
> even thinking about the color blind nor the totally blind here. With
> no human brain, what we know as color just will not exist. There may
> be some sort of vibration/movement in the universe but there will be
> no color because it takes a human being to see them. Please don't add
> other life forms to the equation, the principle is the same. No
> perceiver, no color.
>
> That is only one thing. How about country music? Again, while there
> may be vibrations/movement, without a person to 'translate' these
> vibrations into what we call country music, there just isn't any such
> thing. It is a concept (country music) and doesn't exist without mind.
>
> I really was shocked when you said that you disagreed with me about
> concepts not existing without a perceiver/thinker! Just how could say
> a concept of 'freedom' exist without mind? It just doesn't.
>
> Adding a little more, when you bring in 'labels', yes, all concepts/
> words (labels) are subjective and without mind they just don't exist.
> Even when there *is* mind things like say the earth can be
> deconstructed into atoms and/or molecules etc…stuff that is not what
> we think about as being the planet. I haven't gone into this very
> deeply but hope you grok.
>
>
> On May 3, 9:36 am, "leerevdoug...@googlemail.com" <l...@rdfmedia.com>
> wrote:
> > Hahahah OM old chap, you and I have been round and around on manny
> > matters, as you say though this is just fine.
> >
> > Yes of course the perception of time is a construct of human thought,
> > it is as I say the way we measure decay.
> >
> > Yes of course if we do not project time upon the eternity then time
> > cease to have any meaning.
> >
> > Yet all that we know is contained in the universe and it is clear that
> > within this universe time exists independant of human thought.
> >
> > All that is physical, all that is matter is subject to decay at a
> > certian rate, this is time working.
> >
> > Do you belive then that whatever is apart from the universe does not
> > come under the juristriction of time?  Are you saying that this thing
> > we call God in some places is not subject to time, and that this is
> > also true of anything not composed of matter but spirit instead?  If
> > so then obviously I agree.
> >
> > I must though disagree with you about concepts not existing without
> > somebody to concive of them.  Sure I could probably think of a concept
> > or two where this is applicable, time though isnot one of them.
> >
> > Before the Earth cooled down enough for life to start here a period of
> > time had passed, and although nobody was there to measure how much
> > time had passed, we can now do just that.
> >
> > Time then like light, exists independant of a mind to think of it.  In
> > fact are not all concepts our striving to understand what it is we
> > sense around us?  There must then be forces to sense for us tho strive
> > to understand.  Language is just labels we attach to things to enable
> > us to communicate about them.  Are you really saying these things
> > would not exist if there where no mouths to utter the labels?  Naaaa I
> > do not think that is what you are saying.
> >
> > On May 3, 2:09 pm, ornamentalmind <ornsmindseyes...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Lee, we've gone round and round about 'no-time' on more than one
> > > occasion and in different forums.
> >
> > > So, I have little hope in making this notion acceptable to you which
> > > is just fine.
> >
> > > This can be approached on many levels. One is when one is talking
> > > about how long things exist, yes, all things have a beginning and an
> > > end. *Things*...such as planets, people, thoughts etc.
> >
> > > Yet, if for just a moment we don't project this temporariness upon the
> > > eternity which is obvious to many, when one is in eternity, time just
> > > doesn't have any meaning at all. No beginning - No end.
> >
> > > On a different level...at least a little different...you suggest that
> > > time will exist w/o people. This too, on one level is correct;
> > > however, I suggest that the very idea of time is found only within
> > > human thinking. No humans, no concept of time. Yes, one can *guess*
> > > that things will continue to come and go...but the very idea of 'time'
> > > just doesn't exist without a mind. The same is true for all other
> > > ideas: planet, chin, hairs (gray or black), time, universe, mirror,
> > > science, years, numbers, people...even "Lee" is but a concept thought
> > > about. No thinking, no "Lee" (or any of the other things listed).
> >
> > > On May 3, 5:56 am, "leerevdoug...@googlemail.com" <l...@rdfmedia.com>
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > > That's along the lines of the questions asked myself before deciding
> > > > on my stance.
> >
> > > > Time would go by if there was nobody there to percive it doing so.
> > > > Indeed science would have the time pass since our universe started as
> > > > several billion years.
> >
> > > > When I look in the mirror I can see that time has passed, in the new
> > > > lines in my face, in the ever increasing grey hairs on my head and on
> > > > my chin.
> >
> > > > I don't understand this 'there is no time' though OM, care to explian
> > > > that one?
> >
> > > > On May 3, 1:40 pm, ornamentalmind <ornsmindseyes...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > > TTS, I suggest that this isn't an either/or issue. Time as we perceive
> > > > > it can be both. While in any ultimate sense, there is no time most of
> > > > > us do wear watches and/or use clocks. It is a matter of level of
> > > > > perception and we are able to perceive from more than one level at a
> > > > > time.
> >
> > > > > On May 3, 12:55 am, the taoist shaman <bryan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > > > is time real or an illusion created by change ?   if indeed time is an
> > > > > > illusion created by change shurely this must have meaning, some
> > > > > > ramification on , at the least, the way we preceive ourselves and our
> > > > > > universe to which we are a part .  if so what is the effect of this
> > > > > > altered preception?- Hide quoted text -
> >
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> >
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