Mind's Eye clump

Thinking out loud
Just where should I go?
Here will do fine

Irrational world
Just spinning rapidly around
Orbiting the sun yearly

Getting sleepy
Bed waitin

do not murder, rape or enslave others

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Mind's Eye Wow Surprise

Usually as you get older elliptical activity usually decreases.... With me they were an early morning thing since covid mine have apparently increased..
Now I have been noticed short periods of fuzzy a not feel good period (kind of foggy like) when the short period was over I usually felt good and alert for awhile before becoming exhausted..
Why am I saying this ,  well yesterday I was soldering silver ringlets making a chain.. when I felt good I was setting my jewelry tumbler on fire, (shocking to see) I have no memory other than beginning.. if there had not been the accidental fire I would have never known I had an explicit episode.. I wonder how many I have really had..😏 good thing I quit driving years ago.
Allan

do not murder; rape; or enslave others
God is not a myth

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Mind's Eye Topics

Does anyone have topics they want to discuss?

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Mind's Eye Poetry

Language
For the inner soul
As taught

~~~~
Allan

do not murder; rape; or enslave others
God is not a myth

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Mind's Eye Aura

Does anyone know anything auras?

Allan

Do no harm

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Mind's Eye Mars/colony

I read this in Russia Today involving the mega wealth.. my thoughts well read first

For the truly weird mega-wealthy nerds, like Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk, the dreams of civilisation as they imagine it stretch far beyond the boring blue planet we currently call home, with colonies of wealthy space-dwelling expats living the high life on Mars, while indentured AI robots mine red rocks and precious metals to send back to Earth to fund their lifestyles.😷
🤣😷🤣
Allan

do not murder; rape; or enslave others
God is not a myth

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Mind's Eye clumping

Before dawn
Church bell rang once
Sleepless
~~~~
A while I decided call this style of ¿poetry?  clumping .. it really does not fit into japanese Haiku style, but it is what originally inspired me decades ago when i published online using a major provider. pre-google around 25 years ago.. miss my old webpage (pre blog I had to write my own html script (fun hobby))
some times it is reasonably good  most of the time it is horrible as I write it with out thinking. (bad boy) sometimes i would write driving dow 2 lane highways at 100 + kph (60 mph +)  i know really stupid ,, traffic or no traffic still stupid..
I simply was putting 3 lines together..
now you know how clumping cam into being  for whatever worth it is.
Allan



do not murder, rape or enslave others

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Mind's Eye Clumping

Quite thoughts
Trapped deep within
Forever lost

~~~~
Allan

do not murder; rape; or enslave others
God is not a myth

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Mind's Eye bitcoin vs Gold

years ago when bitcoin first came out.. i wanted to buy around a hundred euro worth they were less than a euro each.. The talk was it would become the NEW currency for internet exchange.. business you know.. well as a artist that uses sterling to create jewelry mainly pendants and chains.. i figured that it would ne fun to trade my art work in exchange using bitcoins.. loosing 200 euro would be no big deal,, I still buy a lot of worthless juck today. (so  i could sell my work in exchange for bitcoins) i figured I could get around €35 (bitcoin exchange rate .. it would have been fun.. fortunately no one knew anything about them or how to create a e-currency wallet..
good thing it never happened as I would be having to deal wiith the spiriual problems involving wealth.. yuck

Now today's currencies and bitcoins are little more than Fiat currency and of no real value.. where as Gold on the other hand I can bang it a round a little bit creating a piece of jewelry for which I could convince some beautiful young lady  to provide me at least a sandwich for in exchange for the piece of jewelry..
now I just explained why I feel gold is of greater value.. value of bitcoins I really don't understand.
Allan

do not murder, rape or enslave others

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Mind's Eye Re: Belief vs knowledge

A nice reverie, Lee. I guess I depend on consensus reality, what I can sense and perceive that others demonstrably sense and perceive. 

I like to research, medicine, science, philosophy, theology, religion, art, music...so many things. I suppose consensus reality comes into play here too. Preferences or information with which I affiliate my knowledge and mental tendencies. For instance, it seems to me that every religion has a mystical tradition, and all of those have quite a bit in common. In practice, I've found that the mystical traditions offer me more than any others, so my beliefs probably fall into line with them.

Can I suspend bias, and be open to new information that my experience offers me? Sometimes I wonder if people can recognize anything new in their experience even though it is there. Entrenched in a bias that prevents perception from even allowing it to be recognized or become part of their experience. 

If we all had no bias or structured belief, we might have less individual truth or reality, and more universal truth and pure awareness in our experience. It is a long road to get there, paved with introspection and self correction to shed the mental constructs we've been taught since birth.

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 4:50:23 AM UTC-4 leerev...@gmail.com wrote:

Morning all.

I can't post or respond to posts using the mobile website, so RP I will reply when I get home...

In the meantime....

How much do you know vs how much you believe?

Many of you here know me, some of us go back a decade or more, (hello to those new to me and I to them)@ I've been online for some 35 odd years or so and have much forum experience.  Which is all to say, this not my first ride.

I've been thinking for as long as I can remember. I know some stuff but believe much more stuff and disbelieve a great amount of stuff too.

I've been back and forth with atheists sooo many times that I think I know thier concerns with theism, well at least the anti thiest athiest.

It's about reason. They tell me that belief without evidence is unreasonable. And yes I suppose it is.  So they smile at me when I say this, and assume they've won...

But isn't that just a description of what belief is? Holding something to be true, that has not been shown to be so....

So I ask them, are you loved?

Yes I am, comes the reply.  But can you prove that?

Well of course, my partner shows me every day by their words and actions...

Nice, I say, I'm happy for you, love is powerful, being loved is great isn't it..

But can you show that your partner is not deciving you?

Well no you can't.  Because no matter how you try, you just cannot prove that what an other thinks is as they claim it.  So ultimately you must believe...

I'm a pragmatist, a realist, but also a thiest and here's the rub, a nilhist too boot.

Seems contradictory no? A pragmatic and nilhistic religious bloke.

It's not and I can readily explain how, but perhaps in another thread at another time. Here and now I'm speaking about belief and knowledge.

Objective reality exists. Can I prove that?

Nope.  Ultimately Decartes' cogito ergo sum, does not work for me. 

I think, therefore I am...

But I cannot conclusively show that the demon is not dreaming of me as A thinking being, any more than I can prove I'm not a brain in a jar or in any other way a simulated being....

I call Descartes' wondering the first belief.

I believe that I am real and live in a real universe, upon that foundational belief hangs all the other beliefs I hold and the very few objective facts I can claim as knowledge. 

What about you lot?

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

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Mind's Eye My

my mind is lost
confusion beginning reign
spinning of reality

~~~~
Allan

do not murder, rape or enslave others

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Re: Mind's Eye Stolen

Blew that idea

do not murder; rape; or enslave others
God is not a myth

-----Original Message-----
From: allanh1946@gmail.com
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 11:13 AM
Subject: Mind's Eye Stolen

do not murder; rape; or enslave others
God is not a myth

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Mind's Eye Stolen

do not murder; rape; or enslave others
God is not a myth

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Mind's Eye Gray

Gray clouds
Tumbling though the sky
Rain for casted

Air cooling down
Equinox past yesterday
Autumn arrived.

~~~~
Allan



do not murder; rape; or enslave others
God is not a myth

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Mind's Eye Thought

Rambling mind
Riding the merry go round
Going nowhere

~~~~
Allan

do not murder; rape; or enslave others
God is not a myth

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Mind's Eye Old members

I would love to see the old gang back together..
I believe more than ever the free minds of the world need a platform to discuss the problems of today.
Allanl

do not murder; rape; or enslave others
God is not a myth

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Re: Mind's Eye Re: Black holes

actually Haiku is where i developed the semi format  from..  when I am in the tight sleepless mental circles. usually gets me out of the mental trap..
 this one was just looking for something to write..

i wish I understood Haiku better and better language skills on my part. love writing them..
Allan


do not murder, rape or enslave others

-----Original Message-----
From: Mardi McCabe <mardidennis@gmail.com>
To: "\"Minds Eye\"" <minds-eye@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 5:53 pm
Subject: Mind's Eye Re: Black holes

ooo love this

a poem

almost a Haiku

great visual image

:-)

On Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 8:01:42 PM UTC-4 Allan Heretic wrote:

Black holes
Heavy milling stone
Universe

~~~~
Allan
do not murder; rape; or enslave others
God is not a myth

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Mind's Eye Re: Black holes

However far you

go you will never walk through

the faraway blue - Caro Reeves

On Wednesday, September 22, 2021 at 11:53:48 AM UTC-4 mardi...@gmail.com wrote:

ooo love this

a poem

almost a Haiku

great visual image

:-)

On Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 8:01:42 PM UTC-4 Allan Heretic wrote:

Black holes
Heavy milling stone
Universe

~~~~
Allan
do not murder; rape; or enslave others
God is not a myth

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Re: Mind's Eye Re: Values

understand
Allan

do not murder, rape or enslave others

-----Original Message-----
From: Mardi McCabe <mardidennis@gmail.com>
To: "\"Minds Eye\"" <minds-eye@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 5:07 pm
Subject: Mind's Eye Re: Values

OK I'll weigh in on Values. I'm speaking from the vantage point of now being able to look back on a number of decades of my life and review the many expressions and stages of my self over time. I think that some of the values from as early as childhood stay with us all our lives while other values are only with us a short time and then are forgotten; and some are modified, shifted, re-imagined as we move through our lives. Like Allan, I placed a high value on sex in my 20s and early 30s. I then began to realize that although orgasms were a great experience, they actually had no weight or substance in creating an abundant life in which I wanted to live. I specifically thought about it in contrast with the deeply permanent resonance I experience when I hike through the mountains, river gorges, wild beaches and wilderness which remains in memory with as much harmonic resonance as the physical experience. It generates deep profound reverberations throughout my being that suffuses through my heart, soul, mind and body transforming my lived experience in permanent grace and belonging and participation in the life of the whole world and universe. The high value of art in my life (breathing it in with my eyes, feeling the wonder of it flow through my soul) and the creation of art through visual images and through words in poetry and creative prose, has been with me from my earliest memories at 3 years old and continuing to generate every aspect of my life and will until I pass on to another life. My enjoyment of friendships has been a high value for me as well. But it took me a long time to figure out what friends brought me joy and fed my spirit and soul with light. And now, although I still value friendships highly, I have realized an even higher value for me is the people I love deeply, and who love me deeply, and like stars orbiting each other our lives sing with the foundations of the universe.

On Saturday, September 18, 2021 at 8:40:15 AM UTC-4 Allan Heretic wrote:

personally this topic deserveds its own thread
So..---¶
Leaving aside philosophy let's talk about values. How should a person live?

What is character, is it living for sex, money and fame?Is that all there in life.

Personally I feel striving for values is of utmost importance... your "noncorpal entity aka Soul" 😱 is striving to understand the Holy Triad of Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva, the creator, sustainer, and destroyer of worlds .. oddly this is not wrong.. but a great deal closer than people realize..
as for value all souls regardless of beliefs are seeking to find harmony and balance with our Creator no matter how we believe in him..

sex lol I remember when it was an obsession with me personally, I mean I loved getting laid.. one day driven by primal drive and I loved busting my nuts.. I suddenly realized in the middle of the act of getting laid what I really wanted was to be accepted as I am without qualification to change.
yeah then and there my life and views changed..  I like the change.. I had to learn to accept others as they were especially the ladies. going out for dinner was just that going out for dinner , friendship and intelligent conversations. I found many ladies to be extremely intelligent...  but like all things a learned to avoid (almost) bimbos who's sole obsession is with guy sometime they were far worse than I ever was.

playing games i damaged my hand and should.. when pain starts I need to stop..
but here is a start to "Values"
Allan

I would like your views on that.

do not murder, rape or enslave others

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Mind's Eye Re: Black holes

ooo love this

a poem

almost a Haiku

great visual image

:-)

On Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 8:01:42 PM UTC-4 Allan Heretic wrote:

Black holes
Heavy milling stone
Universe

~~~~
Allan
do not murder; rape; or enslave others
God is not a myth

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Mind's Eye Re: Values

OK I'll weigh in on Values. I'm speaking from the vantage point of now being able to look back on a number of decades of my life and review the many expressions and stages of my self over time. I think that some of the values from as early as childhood stay with us all our lives while other values are only with us a short time and then are forgotten; and some are modified, shifted, re-imagined as we move through our lives. Like Allan, I placed a high value on sex in my 20s and early 30s. I then began to realize that although orgasms were a great experience, they actually had no weight or substance in creating an abundant life in which I wanted to live. I specifically thought about it in contrast with the deeply permanent resonance I experience when I hike through the mountains, river gorges, wild beaches and wilderness which remains in memory with as much harmonic resonance as the physical experience. It generates deep profound reverberations throughout my being that suffuses through my heart, soul, mind and body transforming my lived experience in permanent grace and belonging and participation in the life of the whole world and universe. The high value of art in my life (breathing it in with my eyes, feeling the wonder of it flow through my soul) and the creation of art through visual images and through words in poetry and creative prose, has been with me from my earliest memories at 3 years old and continuing to generate every aspect of my life and will until I pass on to another life. My enjoyment of friendships has been a high value for me as well. But it took me a long time to figure out what friends brought me joy and fed my spirit and soul with light. And now, although I still value friendships highly, I have realized an even higher value for me is the people I love deeply, and who love me deeply, and like stars orbiting each other our lives sing with the foundations of the universe.

On Saturday, September 18, 2021 at 8:40:15 AM UTC-4 Allan Heretic wrote:

personally this topic deserveds its own thread
So..---¶
Leaving aside philosophy let's talk about values. How should a person live?

What is character, is it living for sex, money and fame?Is that all there in life.

Personally I feel striving for values is of utmost importance... your "noncorpal entity aka Soul" 😱 is striving to understand the Holy Triad of Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva, the creator, sustainer, and destroyer of worlds .. oddly this is not wrong.. but a great deal closer than people realize..
as for value all souls regardless of beliefs are seeking to find harmony and balance with our Creator no matter how we believe in him..

sex lol I remember when it was an obsession with me personally, I mean I loved getting laid.. one day driven by primal drive and I loved busting my nuts.. I suddenly realized in the middle of the act of getting laid what I really wanted was to be accepted as I am without qualification to change.
yeah then and there my life and views changed..  I like the change.. I had to learn to accept others as they were especially the ladies. going out for dinner was just that going out for dinner , friendship and intelligent conversations. I found many ladies to be extremely intelligent...  but like all things a learned to avoid (almost) bimbos who's sole obsession is with guy sometime they were far worse than I ever was.

playing games i damaged my hand and should.. when pain starts I need to stop..
but here is a start to "Values"
Allan

I would like your views on that.

do not murder, rape or enslave others

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Mind's Eye Google chat

Notice I will not be downloading google chat application.. I am not really big of google corporation.

do not murder; rape; or enslave others
God is not a myth

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Re: Mind's Eye Topics

Thank you Don for sharing.

On Wed, Sep 22, 2021, 7:25 AM Don Johnson <dajohn@gmail.com> wrote:

I am alive. RP, the following Youtube vid will be boring to anyone not a guitar enthusiast and/or a musician but if you will go to the last 6 or seven minutes of the interview you will see an opinion about the current state of guitar popularity that MIRRORS what you just said about society. It will give you chills, I promise.

(10) Joe Satriani - "Just Play What You Wanna Play" | My Interview w/ Satch - YouTube 

On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 9:50:47 AM UTC-5 RP wrote:

We are also looking for active members but sadly all have drifted away. You and I, Allan, can't keep the conversation going alone. We need new input, new ideas, which can come only from a new generation. We, like old machines, have become obsolete. We can only add to the conversation, but there have to be fresh brains to whose discussions we can add our views based on the depth of our experience. 

On Sat, Sep 4, 2021, 7:55 PM Allan H <allan...@gmail.com> wrote:

I am just learning this ¿Smartphone? (Nokia 1) I have been looking for a dumb smartphone one that is not a massive spy app platform.

But we are needing topics..

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Re: Mind's Eye Topics

Communism, or whatever they are calling it these days, is Trendy. That's just the way it is. I wish folks better understood it's not the Marxist utopia they hope for but more along the lines of CCP style State Capitalism. We are most of the way there as I type this. I don't trust the media one iota of a scintilla.

On Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 8:55:23 PM UTC-5 Don Johnson wrote:

I am alive. RP, the following Youtube vid will be boring to anyone not a guitar enthusiast and/or a musician but if you will go to the last 6 or seven minutes of the interview you will see an opinion about the current state of guitar popularity that MIRRORS what you just said about society. It will give you chills, I promise.

(10) Joe Satriani - "Just Play What You Wanna Play" | My Interview w/ Satch - YouTube 

On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 9:50:47 AM UTC-5 RP wrote:

We are also looking for active members but sadly all have drifted away. You and I, Allan, can't keep the conversation going alone. We need new input, new ideas, which can come only from a new generation. We, like old machines, have become obsolete. We can only add to the conversation, but there have to be fresh brains to whose discussions we can add our views based on the depth of our experience. 

On Sat, Sep 4, 2021, 7:55 PM Allan H <allan...@gmail.com> wrote:

I am just learning this ¿Smartphone? (Nokia 1) I have been looking for a dumb smartphone one that is not a massive spy app platform.

But we are needing topics..

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Re: Mind's Eye Topics

I am alive. RP, the following Youtube vid will be boring to anyone not a guitar enthusiast and/or a musician but if you will go to the last 6 or seven minutes of the interview you will see an opinion about the current state of guitar popularity that MIRRORS what you just said about society. It will give you chills, I promise.

(10) Joe Satriani - "Just Play What You Wanna Play" | My Interview w/ Satch - YouTube 

On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 9:50:47 AM UTC-5 RP wrote:

We are also looking for active members but sadly all have drifted away. You and I, Allan, can't keep the conversation going alone. We need new input, new ideas, which can come only from a new generation. We, like old machines, have become obsolete. We can only add to the conversation, but there have to be fresh brains to whose discussions we can add our views based on the depth of our experience. 

On Sat, Sep 4, 2021, 7:55 PM Allan H <allan...@gmail.com> wrote:

I am just learning this ¿Smartphone? (Nokia 1) I have been looking for a dumb smartphone one that is not a massive spy app platform.

But we are needing topics..

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Mind's Eye Black holes

Black holes
Heavy milling stone
Universe

~~~~
Allan
do not murder; rape; or enslave others
God is not a myth

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Re: Mind's Eye Re: roll call

That sounds great... I was saying  same thing 

Isolation is good Minds-eye a good solution for keeping isolation sanity,

I personally like solitude and have an excellent e-book library.. just purchased a new e-ink reader. I can even get and answer my email on it.. not bad for a toy.

Allan

Do no harm

On Tue, Sep 21, 2021, 9:30 PM Mardi McCabe <mardidennis@gmail.com> wrote:

thanks Molly. the pandemic has shifted my retirement plans but I have been quite happy with the changes in my life. I had planned all sorts of activities with friends. But it turns out I really love working in the yard, playing with the dogs, going for walks, watching movies with my husband on the huge TV he just had to buy!! As I retired at 70 I plan to keep going for another 20 years and doing lots of things in that time!! So I'm isolating until I feel the coast is clear before I come out in public again! After clearing out the large yard jungle (uprooting lots of stuff) and building extensions to my shed, and taking carloads of stuff to Goodwill to clear up the house, I want to spend time with  my writing and artwork. It is wonderful to no longer shape my days around what the work environment requires and just do whatever I feel like!

On Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 2:13:53 PM UTC-4 molly...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi Mardi, here is the link to keep up with the group online. You can also see all the threads there: https://groups.google.com/g/minds-eye  Good to see you here. I hope the pandemic did not cut into your retirement dreams. I'm envious.

On Sep 21, 2021, at 2:03 PM, allan...@gmail.com wrote:

Yeah google has changed the format ..  for the better ?? Don't really know yet,
Welcome back..we are to all topics.
Allan

do not murder; rape; or enslave others
God is not a myth

-----Original Message-----
From: Mardi McCabe <mardi...@gmail.com>
To: "\"Minds Eye\"" <mind...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, 21 Sep 2021 6:50 PM
Subject: Mind's Eye Re: roll call

ok so I haven't been active in some years due to life stuff kind of taking up all my time. When I retired in 2020 I checked back with the Minds Eye online group to find there were no recent posts! Also it seems the format of Google Groups screens has changed in the meantime. it appears that this is set up like an email exchange now? Not sure how to use it to read and comment on particular threads?

On Monday, September 6, 2021 at 2:34:53 PM UTC-4 Allan Heretic wrote:

for those who have not blocked minds-eye. at least let everyone know you are still following.. personally I see greater need today than when I first joined..  

yes I know I say the stupidest stuff,, mostly to get a rise from members.. contary to corporate news reports the ecological tipping point of no return is 2028 (ouch) the extinction of humanity is serious business..

very little is being done. oddly China has a program where they are cleaning up the rivers and physically pumping the water back into the ground where the water tables at there source (expensive ; very) but that is what it will take to stop the raging wild fires world wide. Mother Earth is trying to replace her water resources and she will succeed even if it means the extinction of humanity.

can we find away for our children and grandchildren can survive.. sticking our heads in sand and ignoring the problem will not work..

Allan

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Mind's Eye I have been go-eye platform

What are the memberships ideas as to how we want to and how do we want to deal with the problems.
I do know my health is failing . Over the last year I personally have survived massive failure an covid-19. I have been going through Borg assimilation and now have a 3 chamber pacemaker to help regulate my heart rate..
I am recovering quite well and the Doctors closely monitor me.. Physical Death has become a reality.. I am not concerned about dying, but .... I am very lucky
So how and where do we want the discussion (s)
I probably did that wrong
Allan

do not murder; rape; or enslave others
God is not a myth

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Re: Mind's Eye Re: roll call

thanks Molly. the pandemic has shifted my retirement plans but I have been quite happy with the changes in my life. I had planned all sorts of activities with friends. But it turns out I really love working in the yard, playing with the dogs, going for walks, watching movies with my husband on the huge TV he just had to buy!! As I retired at 70 I plan to keep going for another 20 years and doing lots of things in that time!! So I'm isolating until I feel the coast is clear before I come out in public again! After clearing out the large yard jungle (uprooting lots of stuff) and building extensions to my shed, and taking carloads of stuff to Goodwill to clear up the house, I want to spend time with  my writing and artwork. It is wonderful to no longer shape my days around what the work environment requires and just do whatever I feel like!

On Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 2:13:53 PM UTC-4 molly...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi Mardi, here is the link to keep up with the group online. You can also see all the threads there: https://groups.google.com/g/minds-eye  Good to see you here. I hope the pandemic did not cut into your retirement dreams. I'm envious.

On Sep 21, 2021, at 2:03 PM, allan...@gmail.com wrote:

Yeah google has changed the format ..  for the better ?? Don't really know yet,
Welcome back..we are to all topics.
Allan

do not murder; rape; or enslave others
God is not a myth

-----Original Message-----
From: Mardi McCabe <mardi...@gmail.com>
To: "\"Minds Eye\"" <mind...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, 21 Sep 2021 6:50 PM
Subject: Mind's Eye Re: roll call

ok so I haven't been active in some years due to life stuff kind of taking up all my time. When I retired in 2020 I checked back with the Minds Eye online group to find there were no recent posts! Also it seems the format of Google Groups screens has changed in the meantime. it appears that this is set up like an email exchange now? Not sure how to use it to read and comment on particular threads?

On Monday, September 6, 2021 at 2:34:53 PM UTC-4 Allan Heretic wrote:

for those who have not blocked minds-eye. at least let everyone know you are still following.. personally I see greater need today than when I first joined..  

yes I know I say the stupidest stuff,, mostly to get a rise from members.. contary to corporate news reports the ecological tipping point of no return is 2028 (ouch) the extinction of humanity is serious business..

very little is being done. oddly China has a program where they are cleaning up the rivers and physically pumping the water back into the ground where the water tables at there source (expensive ; very) but that is what it will take to stop the raging wild fires world wide. Mother Earth is trying to replace her water resources and she will succeed even if it means the extinction of humanity.

can we find away for our children and grandchildren can survive.. sticking our heads in sand and ignoring the problem will not work..

Allan

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Re: Mind's Eye Re: roll call

Hi Mardi, here is the link to keep up with the group online. You can also see all the threads there: https://groups.google.com/g/minds-eye  Good to see you here. I hope the pandemic did not cut into your retirement dreams. I'm envious.

On Sep 21, 2021, at 2:03 PM, allanh1946@gmail.com wrote:

Yeah google has changed the format ..  for the better ?? Don't really know yet,
Welcome back..we are to all topics.
Allan

do not murder; rape; or enslave others
God is not a myth

-----Original Message-----
From: Mardi McCabe <mardidennis@gmail.com>
To: "\"Minds Eye\"" <minds-eye@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, 21 Sep 2021 6:50 PM
Subject: Mind's Eye Re: roll call

ok so I haven't been active in some years due to life stuff kind of taking up all my time. When I retired in 2020 I checked back with the Minds Eye online group to find there were no recent posts! Also it seems the format of Google Groups screens has changed in the meantime. it appears that this is set up like an email exchange now? Not sure how to use it to read and comment on particular threads?

On Monday, September 6, 2021 at 2:34:53 PM UTC-4 Allan Heretic wrote:

for those who have not blocked minds-eye. at least let everyone know you are still following.. personally I see greater need today than when I first joined..  

yes I know I say the stupidest stuff,, mostly to get a rise from members.. contary to corporate news reports the ecological tipping point of no return is 2028 (ouch) the extinction of humanity is serious business..

very little is being done. oddly China has a program where they are cleaning up the rivers and physically pumping the water back into the ground where the water tables at there source (expensive ; very) but that is what it will take to stop the raging wild fires world wide. Mother Earth is trying to replace her water resources and she will succeed even if it means the extinction of humanity.

can we find away for our children and grandchildren can survive.. sticking our heads in sand and ignoring the problem will not work..

Allan

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Re: Mind's Eye Re: roll call

Yeah google has changed the format ..  for the better ?? Don't really know yet,
Welcome back..we are to all topics.
Allan

do not murder; rape; or enslave others
God is not a myth

-----Original Message-----
From: Mardi McCabe <mardidennis@gmail.com>
To: "\"Minds Eye\"" <minds-eye@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, 21 Sep 2021 6:50 PM
Subject: Mind's Eye Re: roll call

ok so I haven't been active in some years due to life stuff kind of taking up all my time. When I retired in 2020 I checked back with the Minds Eye online group to find there were no recent posts! Also it seems the format of Google Groups screens has changed in the meantime. it appears that this is set up like an email exchange now? Not sure how to use it to read and comment on particular threads?

On Monday, September 6, 2021 at 2:34:53 PM UTC-4 Allan Heretic wrote:

for those who have not blocked minds-eye. at least let everyone know you are still following.. personally I see greater need today than when I first joined..  

yes I know I say the stupidest stuff,, mostly to get a rise from members.. contary to corporate news reports the ecological tipping point of no return is 2028 (ouch) the extinction of humanity is serious business..

very little is being done. oddly China has a program where they are cleaning up the rivers and physically pumping the water back into the ground where the water tables at there source (expensive ; very) but that is what it will take to stop the raging wild fires world wide. Mother Earth is trying to replace her water resources and she will succeed even if it means the extinction of humanity.

can we find away for our children and grandchildren can survive.. sticking our heads in sand and ignoring the problem will not work..

Allan

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Re: Mind's Eye Re: roll call

Welcome back.. I hope that everything is all right now.. 

We are in the process of attempting to get minds-eye active again

Allan

On Tue, 21 Sep 2021, 6:50 pm Mardi McCabe, <mardidennis@gmail.com> wrote:

ok so I haven't been active in some years due to life stuff kind of taking up all my time. When I retired in 2020 I checked back with the Minds Eye online group to find there were no recent posts! Also it seems the format of Google Groups screens has changed in the meantime. it appears that this is set up like an email exchange now? Not sure how to use it to read and comment on particular threads?

On Monday, September 6, 2021 at 2:34:53 PM UTC-4 Allan Heretic wrote:

for those who have not blocked minds-eye. at least let everyone know you are still following.. personally I see greater need today than when I first joined..  

yes I know I say the stupidest stuff,, mostly to get a rise from members.. contary to corporate news reports the ecological tipping point of no return is 2028 (ouch) the extinction of humanity is serious business..

very little is being done. oddly China has a program where they are cleaning up the rivers and physically pumping the water back into the ground where the water tables at there source (expensive ; very) but that is what it will take to stop the raging wild fires world wide. Mother Earth is trying to replace her water resources and she will succeed even if it means the extinction of humanity.

can we find away for our children and grandchildren can survive.. sticking our heads in sand and ignoring the problem will not work..

Allan

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Mind's Eye Re: roll call

ok so I haven't been active in some years due to life stuff kind of taking up all my time. When I retired in 2020 I checked back with the Minds Eye online group to find there were no recent posts! Also it seems the format of Google Groups screens has changed in the meantime. it appears that this is set up like an email exchange now? Not sure how to use it to read and comment on particular threads?

On Monday, September 6, 2021 at 2:34:53 PM UTC-4 Allan Heretic wrote:

for those who have not blocked minds-eye. at least let everyone know you are still following.. personally I see greater need today than when I first joined..  

yes I know I say the stupidest stuff,, mostly to get a rise from members.. contary to corporate news reports the ecological tipping point of no return is 2028 (ouch) the extinction of humanity is serious business..

very little is being done. oddly China has a program where they are cleaning up the rivers and physically pumping the water back into the ground where the water tables at there source (expensive ; very) but that is what it will take to stop the raging wild fires world wide. Mother Earth is trying to replace her water resources and she will succeed even if it means the extinction of humanity.

can we find away for our children and grandchildren can survive.. sticking our heads in sand and ignoring the problem will not work..

Allan

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Re: Mind's Eye Belief vs knowledge

If you say that belief is greater than reason why do you give reasons in support of your beliefs, just why not say I have this belief and will brook no criticism, no explanations. It is final and no arguments please.

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 2:20 PM leerevdouglas <leerevdouglas@gmail.com> wrote:

Morning all.

I can't post or respond to posts using the mobile website, so RP I will reply when I get home...

In the meantime....

How much do you know vs how much you believe?

Many of you here know me, some of us go back a decade or more, (hello to those new to me and I to them)@ I've been online for some 35 odd years or so and have much forum experience.  Which is all to say, this not my first ride.

I've been thinking for as long as I can remember. I know some stuff but believe much more stuff and disbelieve a great amount of stuff too.

I've been back and forth with atheists sooo many times that I think I know thier concerns with theism, well at least the anti thiest athiest.

It's about reason. They tell me that belief without evidence is unreasonable. And yes I suppose it is.  So they smile at me when I say this, and assume they've won...

But isn't that just a description of what belief is? Holding something to be true, that has not been shown to be so....

So I ask them, are you loved?

Yes I am, comes the reply.  But can you prove that?

Well of course, my partner shows me every day by their words and actions...

Nice, I say, I'm happy for you, love is powerful, being loved is great isn't it..

But can you show that your partner is not deciving you?

Well no you can't.  Because no matter how you try, you just cannot prove that what an other thinks is as they claim it.  So ultimately you must believe...

I'm a pragmatist, a realist, but also a thiest and here's the rub, a nilhist too boot.

Seems contradictory no? A pragmatic and nilhistic religious bloke.

It's not and I can readily explain how, but perhaps in another thread at another time. Here and now I'm speaking about belief and knowledge.

Objective reality exists. Can I prove that?

Nope.  Ultimately Decartes' cogito ergo sum, does not work for me. 

I think, therefore I am...

But I cannot conclusively show that the demon is not dreaming of me as A thinking being, any more than I can prove I'm not a brain in a jar or in any other way a simulated being....

I call Descartes' wondering the first belief.

I believe that I am real and live in a real universe, upon that foundational belief hangs all the other beliefs I hold and the very few objective facts I can claim as knowledge. 

What about you lot?

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

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Re: Mind's Eye Belief vs knowledge

When a priest speaks from the pulpit how do you know that he actually means it, that he is not deceiving you. How do you know that what is written in the holy book is true, how do know that the prophet really had communion with God, and yet you believe him. But there are so many religions which contradict each other, so what is the True religion. Everyone claims his own religion to be true.

Then you can stop reasoning about religion and follow it blindly. The muslim will convert the whole world to Islam a d do jihad. Who will interpret the holy books without reasoning, but you say belief is greater than knowledge, so stop reasoning and let each one follow his religion blindly.

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 2:20 PM leerevdouglas <leerevdouglas@gmail.com> wrote:

Morning all.

I can't post or respond to posts using the mobile website, so RP I will reply when I get home...

In the meantime....

How much do you know vs how much you believe?

Many of you here know me, some of us go back a decade or more, (hello to those new to me and I to them)@ I've been online for some 35 odd years or so and have much forum experience.  Which is all to say, this not my first ride.

I've been thinking for as long as I can remember. I know some stuff but believe much more stuff and disbelieve a great amount of stuff too.

I've been back and forth with atheists sooo many times that I think I know thier concerns with theism, well at least the anti thiest athiest.

It's about reason. They tell me that belief without evidence is unreasonable. And yes I suppose it is.  So they smile at me when I say this, and assume they've won...

But isn't that just a description of what belief is? Holding something to be true, that has not been shown to be so....

So I ask them, are you loved?

Yes I am, comes the reply.  But can you prove that?

Well of course, my partner shows me every day by their words and actions...

Nice, I say, I'm happy for you, love is powerful, being loved is great isn't it..

But can you show that your partner is not deciving you?

Well no you can't.  Because no matter how you try, you just cannot prove that what an other thinks is as they claim it.  So ultimately you must believe...

I'm a pragmatist, a realist, but also a thiest and here's the rub, a nilhist too boot.

Seems contradictory no? A pragmatic and nilhistic religious bloke.

It's not and I can readily explain how, but perhaps in another thread at another time. Here and now I'm speaking about belief and knowledge.

Objective reality exists. Can I prove that?

Nope.  Ultimately Decartes' cogito ergo sum, does not work for me. 

I think, therefore I am...

But I cannot conclusively show that the demon is not dreaming of me as A thinking being, any more than I can prove I'm not a brain in a jar or in any other way a simulated being....

I call Descartes' wondering the first belief.

I believe that I am real and live in a real universe, upon that foundational belief hangs all the other beliefs I hold and the very few objective facts I can claim as knowledge. 

What about you lot?

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

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Re: Mind's Eye Belief vs knowledge

The thought pattern that is logic is different in everyone. It depends on your genes, your family and neighbourhood, your school, your classmates and society in general.

When you grow up you have a reasoning power of your own, you have your own understanding and that is why some people in their adulthood change their religion 

So, what Is logical to one is illogical to another. Some feel that what their heart accepts is right and some believe in their intellect.

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 5:28 PM Rajendra Pal Singh <1234rp@gmail.com> wrote:

What then is belief and how it lodges in the heart?

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 5:18 PM Allan <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:

again we disagree  RP you are getting in to synonyms but word have different but similar meaning.
i am getting tired and need to pause for awhile.
Allan


do not murder, rape or enslave others

-----Original Message-----
From: Rajendra Pal Singh <1234rp@gmail.com>
To: Minds Eye <minds-eye@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, 20 Sep 2021 1:30 pm
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Belief vs knowledge

A child has faith that what his teachers are teaching is truth, when the priest delivers a sermon they believe it to be true. When islamic suicide bombers go in a crowded place an blow themselves they believe that they will go to jannat because they have been told so since childhood.

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 4:33 PM Allan <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:

disagree RP little children do not have faith ..  what they do have id the strange ability to accect and believe..
strange as it sounds I once was one.. now I work very hard at keeping my child within both well and healthy.
my second most cherished possession.
Allan

do not murder, rape or enslave others

-----Original Message-----
From: Rajendra Pal Singh <1234rp@gmail.com>
To: Minds Eye <minds-eye@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, 20 Sep 2021 11:09 am
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Belief vs knowledge

First step in reasoning is that you have faith later on you prove or disprove it with time. Little children have faith and learn what they are taught. Later when they grow up they reason out things and often their beliefs change with time. 

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 2:20 PM leerevdouglas <leerevdouglas@gmail.com> wrote:

Morning all.

I can't post or respond to posts using the mobile website, so RP I will reply when I get home...

In the meantime....

How much do you know vs how much you believe?

Many of you here know me, some of us go back a decade or more, (hello to those new to me and I to them)@ I've been online for some 35 odd years or so and have much forum experience.  Which is all to say, this not my first ride.

I've been thinking for as long as I can remember. I know some stuff but believe much more stuff and disbelieve a great amount of stuff too.

I've been back and forth with atheists sooo many times that I think I know thier concerns with theism, well at least the anti thiest athiest.

It's about reason. They tell me that belief without evidence is unreasonable. And yes I suppose it is.  So they smile at me when I say this, and assume they've won...

But isn't that just a description of what belief is? Holding something to be true, that has not been shown to be so....

So I ask them, are you loved?

Yes I am, comes the reply.  But can you prove that?

Well of course, my partner shows me every day by their words and actions...

Nice, I say, I'm happy for you, love is powerful, being loved is great isn't it..

But can you show that your partner is not deciving you?

Well no you can't.  Because no matter how you try, you just cannot prove that what an other thinks is as they claim it.  So ultimately you must believe...

I'm a pragmatist, a realist, but also a thiest and here's the rub, a nilhist too boot.

Seems contradictory no? A pragmatic and nilhistic religious bloke.

It's not and I can readily explain how, but perhaps in another thread at another time. Here and now I'm speaking about belief and knowledge.

Objective reality exists. Can I prove that?

Nope.  Ultimately Decartes' cogito ergo sum, does not work for me. 

I think, therefore I am...

But I cannot conclusively show that the demon is not dreaming of me as A thinking being, any more than I can prove I'm not a brain in a jar or in any other way a simulated being....

I call Descartes' wondering the first belief.

I believe that I am real and live in a real universe, upon that foundational belief hangs all the other beliefs I hold and the very few objective facts I can claim as knowledge. 

What about you lot?

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

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