Sunday, March 29, 2015

Re: Mind's Eye Re: Is free speech free?

You are assuming things I don't assume Richard.  

On Monday, 30 March 2015 00:19:23 UTC+1, Richard wrote:

Sorry for the interruption, Archytas ( my e-mail is
First of all I must say, you are really doing a great job here for us.
But if you say you assume... do you assume you are the only real people here... in the essence of contribution (if yes, then, you are one hundred percent right)?
But if you assume you are the real people here (as not bearing false identity) then I'm sorry because you are not the only real people here.
The fact that one is not contributing doesn't make him/her "as not being real" as you assume.

As a member of this group, I've been reading the posts from time to time each moment I get the chance to visit my e-mail inbox, and I must say, I enjoyed the friction between Allan and Gabby (because those stuffs are evident in every societies, even within our families, and sometimes it's a good thing). But I saw it getting out of hands; most of the times preventing the flow of a meaningful thread. To me it became boring!
Nevertheless, I admire both of them (Allan and Gabby)

On Moderation
Well, I think as it is now, there is nothing wrong with the mode of moderation by Molly.

We hope to see you around again, Andrew.

On Mar 28, 2015 8:33 PM, "andrew vecsey" <> wrote:
Dear members. I would like to say goodbye to you and wish you all the best in the future. I am sure to drop by every once in a while and see how you are getting along, but I will try my best not to participate in this group any longer. Like I pointed out in a past post, the only reason I did stay in this group as long as I did was that I did find a few gems in the piles of shit I had to wade thru. It was not easy and it was very frustrating. Right at the start I was labeled a troll, and later, my posts if they were not ignored were mainly complaints to my person and not the ideas I was trying to have a discussion on. Before I sign off, and parachute away, I would like to make some last comments. 

For me, free speech is the freedom to state your opinion, whatever it is. In such an internet news group such as this, we can all speak at the same time and there is no need of any protocols. It is respectful if we all listen to what is being said by all members. I find that there is a lack of respect in this group. Respect is also assuming  that all members are humans with a heart beat and with feelings and want to be listened to and to be taken seriously. Otherwise it is meaningless to have a discussion. Members who remain silent to serious accusations of their fellow members by accusers, especially when the accusers are moderators, are loudly and clearly shouting their agreement with the accusers. So having said that, I protest the accusations made about Gabby and her aliases, the unfair treatment of RP as well as accusations made about Ash not being a person worthy of respect.

As far as free speech is concerned, I see that in this group, free speech is just not possible because the moderators limit it on purpose, Freedom, in order for it to have meaning has to be unconditional.  That means that free speech is being able to say anything you want to say, even if its talking about Jihadis or bullying others with words. The role of moderation I believe is to keep the discussion from being derailed. The simple solution to derailment is to move the bullying and derailing practices to a separate topic which could be easily ignored by those wishing to ignore it.

Once again I sincerely wish you all the very best from the depth of my beating heart.
Andrew Vecsey,     

On Saturday, March 28, 2015 at 4:54:50 PM UTC+1, archytas wrote:
"At a minimum, speech will have to be limited for the sake of order. If we all speak at once, we end up with an incoherent cacophony. Without some rules and procedures we cannot have a conversation at all and consequently speech has to be limited by protocols of basic civility......

I guess Molly and I don't want to exclude any views in principle, but this is impossible in practice. .....We don't talk about the Jihadis, though I have occasionally let one in.   ................. I assume the only real people left in here are me, Molly, Allan and Tony - apologies to Ash and Andrew if they have actual pulses.  ..........

On Saturday, March 28, 2015 at 3:00:35 PM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote:
Free speech  does not mean you can say what ever you want..


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