Re: Mind's Eye Re: Who can we tell?

There is a huge problem with crackpot complainers in all this - but this then turns into 'all complainers being crackpot'.  I keep hearing 'we must listen to and believe the victims' - a total nonsense a what is needed is full, frank and competent investigation and a legal system that works.  I've seen innovations like domestic violence courts - some good things there - yet even as we do such, nearly always as under-funded pilots, the problems grow.

I know what I should be able to do (if I was still a cop) if I attended the home of parents complaining there 13 year old daughter had just been raped or was subject to other forms of sexual exploitation.  There should be immediate concern for the protection of the girl and the family, a highly considerate forensic examination system available 24/7 (we have SAFEs and SARCs - but you can bet your call will be after midnight and these services working 9 - 5 Mon - Fri, on call social services (ho, ho, ho) with social workers not already running at double work-load and detectives to get on with an immediate investigation and early arrests of perpetrators with monitoring (of likely threats) of the family and a decent direct alarm system.  What happens instead is so dire you'd think Steven King made it up.

Many kids involved in such are not "reliable".  This should make various agencies involved realise the situation calls for hard evidence.  This is the actual case in nearly all crime.  Who is more likely to be "unreliable" than a sleazy perpetrator, whether banker, politician or paedophile?  Do we ever expect them to come clean when allegations are put to them?  Yet we have social workers saying young kids 'choose a prostitute lifestyle', 'give consent' and worse.  The agencies even ignored 100 cases in Rotherham where the victims were pregnant - you'd think DNA tests here utterly conclusive.

The Hillsborough (96 deaths at a soccer game) case is a quarter of a century old and not resolved.  We now have a police officer on trial for the killing of Azelle Rodney in 2005, after being 'cleared' by utterly dud "investigations" that missed very obvious hard evidence.  I don't think this officer should be on trial - I might well have opened fire in his circumstances - the point, across child sexual exploitation to such as "inquiries" into Iraq, Parliamentary expenses, the financial crisis and nearly all misconduct and incompetence, is that we are never getting the truth in a reasonable time scale that could prevent the problems continuing and the 're-beating' of victims.

The extent of all this suggests endemic problems.  Forgetting statistics, my big sister worked in a Lake District hotel.  Jimmy Saville, the dead DJ perhaps our most notorious paedophile and sex molester, was the talk of the hotel because of his antics in a nearby TT guest house.  My big brother went on Saville's show 'Jim'll Fix It' thanks to a letter from kids he taught.  One of the kids who went with him was assaulted by Saville.  My brother rang his brother the cop to ask what could be done.  Meanwhile, as a cop, I was investigating a Saville hanger-on, who sometimes did the DJ spot at a Friday night disco at the school my dad was headmaster of.  This scumbag was known to have young girls (12 - 14) in his RV.  This was all 1970s.  Both Saville and his scumbag mate are notorious abusers now.  I had to tell my brother that trying to do anything over these matters was more or less impossible - I was only able to get the scumbag in jail by discovering his other criminal activities.  What's the score across society if my family had these degrees of association?  There were more, because I was a cop.  Even the guy I replaced in an academic job got five years as part of a paedophile ring.

Meanwhile, Tony Blair struts the world stage as  a "statesman".  Sharon Shoesmith, with a £680,000 tribunal pay-off because of the bungling of her dismissal, claims she is a victim of the 'death of Baby P' - not noticing actual victims can't even get into court, let alone get any finance to help them recover. 

On Wednesday, October 29, 2014 1:05:39 PM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote:

I know you you do not display those characteristics , I hope I don't, Neil is a good guy also..  That translates to there are others that want a better world.

I do think a few people want to turn away and guidance can be good giving a different point of view or economic paths to follow. To me that is a noble objective.

All an
~~
do not murder, rape, enslave or harm others

-----Original Message-----
From: Molly <mollyb363@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2014 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Who can we tell?

No matter what community we create, as long as people hate, judge, look away and act out, there will be problems of violence and how to manage it it groups.

On Wednesday, October 29, 2014 7:28:15 AM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote:

Been there done that too.

Anyone for creating a Off shore barge community?;


All an
~~
do not murder, rape, enslave or harm others

-----Original Message-----
From: Molly <mollyb363@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2014 12:03 PM
Subject: Mind's Eye Re: Who can we tell?

All very sticky stuff here in the US too and I have come to think that abuse is so embedded in the culture that everyone prefers to look the other way than speak up and follow through.  I've done it and seen people do it, but it always brings a long series of difficulties that must be toughed out and results are mixed but I must say I have seen it work out to the benefit of the abused, though only in the long run.  In the short run, people are so upset, in denial etc., that it is much more difficult. If it gets to court you can count on multiple dates and a slim chance of justice.  Pressing charges of domestic violence over here usually increases the violence because the police and courts are much to slow or reluctant to make decisions, and the abusers have a personality disorder that compels them to continue.

I've been in a crowd where an adult is slapping and screaming at a child and no one is doing anything.  Always nerve wracking for me to be the one to walk over and interrupt, fumbling for someones card to pass along to suggest the family find a better way or my phone to dial 911.  When the cops arrive, accusations on both sides fly because the abuser always blames someone else and I've been called into question on occasion.  Never easy.

I have often wondered why we can't handle obvious abuse better as a group. I just reported a case of sexual harassment at work after watching for too long it happen to a beautiful young girl who was too afraid to report herself. The culture was such that a mountain of retribution came back on me, but I would do it again because it minimized the behavior. I say minimized because the guy is still with us and has a personality that keeps it going. We overlook so much subtle inequity, bullying, ridicule, passive aggression that the outright aggression becomes a matter of course we can't be bothered unraveling it seems.

On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 9:40:49 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote:

BBC's 'Panorama' produced a documentary last night on 'Baby P' - Peter Connelly killed at 17 months after much abuse 7 years ago.  The perpetrators were jailed, scum of little interest.  There was a serious case review, generally a hapless procedure of whitewash here.  It now seems this and other reports were a fix to pin blame on social services - in fact all agencies involved were useless, social services perhaps less so than the politicians and others.  Obviously, no reasonable society would want this kind of vicious cover-up at all or not to know what really went on for 7 years, given we should want to put things right (the 'learning lessons' rhetoric).

Britain is an intensely secretive society.  I don't even know why we got involved in the two world wars, let alone Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria.  When I think of Gabby or Germans I have actually met, I have even less idea on the world wars.  I doubt ignorance is my problem in this - it's just clear the general stuff we are given is bunk.  When one researches social issues from war to child abuse, the reality shifts a long way from the history of Empire I was taught and the idea our politicians and bureaucracy operate in any competent way.

In another case, in Rotherham, more than 1400 victims of child sexual exploitation were further abused by all the services they encountered.  In this case, a young, female Home Office researcher had her work destroyed and was threatened by two police officers who said they were going to give her name and address to the abusers.  There are so many other cases I doubt I could finish writing their outline within a couple of days.  This is before one thinks about our banks and business practices, and revolting breaches of trust by priests, teachers and cops.

Who can we even tell when it is almost impossible to think of any speedy and fair investigations and resolutions - or even admissions of wrong-doing by our establishments?  This before you realise cops and other agencies quickly brief against victims and other complainants.

 

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