There is a much sweeter aspect of trust and confidence in self and others. We can do little without this aspect, yet it is also what psychopaths, votaries and free-riders exploit. Allan and I might have attended Edgebaston (Birmingham) today for the cricket. An early start would have seen us through the ladies' match - England beat South Africa with some top drawer fielding to rival Willie Mays. Very easy on the eye. England will probably lose the mens' game against India. Lovely day, atypical of England in September. Of course, we could hardly trust the weather and I would have taken a spare plastic poncho in case Allan came unprepared for standard UK climatics. A nice day is less likely than an England win. Experience, of course, has an effect on trust. Preparation for cricket attendance in the UK can be based on open criteria. Much going on politically is now the equivalent on insider trading or being caught in a card game with a marked deck you don't know about.
-- It's easy enough to call for transparency, but I suspect all we have is statistical thinking. If Rotherham generalises (in my experience it does) across Britain, we have a massive problem centred on Pakistani-Afghan child sexual exploitation. We have lacked the ability to trust ourselves to investigate and not be racist. Much I have seen from Molly before would help in training to get over the many trust problems involved. Any knowledge on what the Dutch do Allan? Part of trust in this area is the faith that one can open up without fear of retribution. In a related systems problem here, cops have been selling lists of informers and losing unencrypted pen drives replete with such information.
England 180 for 7 at the break. Cup of tea and a cake Allan?
On Saturday, 6 September 2014 03:10:59 UTC+1, Allan Heretic wrote:
On Saturday, 6 September 2014 03:10:59 UTC+1, Allan Heretic wrote:
lol, it has been all over the news.
It is strange how some government type employees have a convenience or selective memory.
In politicians we trust, my God what a horrid thought. When you consider that a person taking out another person to gain a favor is actually a bribe.
Sigh corruption abounds. I am as guilty as anyone in turning a blind eye. Probably more so because i know what is happening well be not because i am not bashful about saying something and always habe
Allan
Living Soul
-----Original Message-----
From: archytas <nwterry@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, 06 Sep 2014 2:18 AM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye trustWe have (another) child sexual abuse scandal over here. The place is Rotherham in South Yorkshire. The story will be almost the same anywhere in the UK. The problem has been ignored for decades. The former chief constable says 'no one told him about it'. I knew about it as a detective 30 years back and the specific racial issues 15 years ago as a university lecturer. This former chief constable says we wasn't incompetent because he didn't know. Trust is a big part of the criminal justice system. Amongst people not telling this turkey was a Home Office researcher who sent him her report, only to be treated disgracefully. About all we can trust in terms of the big chunks who rise to the top of the establishment septic tank is that they lie and cover up mistakes whilst claiming to 'learn lessons'. To understand one's own incompetence one first needs the ability to admit to such.--There were 100 serious cases going uninvestigated in a town of 250,000, which suggests 28,000 across the UK population at 70 million. That's every year. Little reason to trust our public services.
On Friday, 5 September 2014 20:08:59 UTC+1, Allan Heretic wrote:Don't forget Tony I'm an expat & very much aware of what goes on there, including taxes as I have property in Montana, Missouri, & Arkansas.
Do you know that the pilgrim father you know first moved to Leiden Netherlands for religious freedom then moved the Americas because the dutch were to immoral for their tastes. Once there they threw a "Thanksgiving" dinner for the natives americans so they could kill them and steal their land.
Another thing I had to learn was my bill of rights here , almost identical to the one in the US, only it around 100 years earlier.
Figures.
Allan
Living Soul
-----Original Message-----
From: "'facilitator' via \"Minds Eye\"" <minds-eye@googlegroups.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye trustOn this side of the pond our politicians pull out the conveniently ubiquitous coins from their pocket (The ones that say "we" trust in God) and begin to tell us how we all must honor old biblical passages as they will lead us to better government. I have to conclude at this stage that politicians must believe the separation of church and state is less like apples and oranges and more like a Mica Schist! I "trust" our leaders to do the right thing.--
On Friday, September 5, 2014 7:40:14 AM UTC-4, archytas wrote:Having pointed to the negative on trust, there is a largely unexplored positive. My dogs could rip me to shreds, but don't. They can trust me not to have the heart to hit them. People can live in peace. We might ask each other what we have trust in.
On Friday, 5 September 2014 12:20:38 UTC+1, archytas wrote:We can almost trust Allan and Andrew to be at each other's throats! They have long reminded me of the 'Flowerpot Men' (ancient BBC kid's programme starring Gabby as 'Little Weed' - the one that kept the squabbling men in order). I'd guess, brain-wise, that love and trust centre on the limbic system and thus we might expect mammals to do quite a lot of loving and trusting. I am prone not to want to 'master' anything. The dogs and cat regard me as a butler. They trust themselves enough to eat me it the tins ever run out and to let me share their lives, mostly on their terms.Love 'flip flops' if you think about it Andrew - fast enough for sexually transmitted diseases to thrive in all the 'trust'. Politics is full of statements like 'it's better to have them inside the tent pissing out, than outside pissing in' and 'once you have their balls in your pocket the rest will follow' - LBJ and Nixon. I actually wonder if our bought and paid for politicians are also compromised so that the establishment can trust them. Maybe be Blair took us into that murderous war because they had the photographs sort of thing.I want to give people (anyone) pretty much unconditional positive affirmation - yet I have seen the worst at work and know the love/trust orientation is a practical dud. I think we are far too soppy about trust. It's been considered a lot in establishment literature - Francis Fukuyama wrote some really silly stuff I used to teach as the 'Milkman theory of the universe' - milkman leaves milk 'trusting' you will pay at the end of the week. The truth is way distant from such platitudes. Most in here will know money is created as loans by private banks (97%) rather than government (3%). Only one in ten of UK MPs knew when polled. We 'trust' these idiots with the economy? Trust and faith have a lot to do with ignorance and message manipulation - and our overestimation of our competence in judging credibility.
On Friday, 5 September 2014 09:29:37 UTC+1, Allan Heretic wrote:If I had made your statement there would have been foundation in place support such a comment. Sorry Andrew flip flopping is not a sign of intelligence and fluidity. You see flip flopping a lot in politics and that comment is not a compliment on flexibility and intelligence.
Now I have made some what originally was very stupid topics meant to stir up the shit and get some conversation going. One was are we really spiritual zombies not an really a popular topic. Oddly that intentionally stupid statement as I rooted around in it I found out that the comment actually was part a sects beliefs. Truth is my beliefs actually evolved which was a surprise to me.. .. Because i thought my spiritual development was quite advanced only find out that my perspective need altering. Over the decades my beliefs have changed, not the foundation but I managed to throw out a lot of unfounded dogma & doctrine.
In science as in beliefs there is a need to evolve. Evolution is a process not a flip flop. If you are trying flip flop to appear intelligent I feel sorry for you Andrew.
Allan
Living Soul
-----Original Message-----
From: andrew vecsey <andrew...@gmail.com>
To: mind...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 7:41 AM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye trustI am here on earth to learn and would find it very sad if I did not. Learning requires changing opinions. Niel`s commented (as I understood him) that animals do not show trust. RPs feedback to my comments pointed out to me that animals can indeed show trust. On thinking of this further, I came to an opinion that it is only domesticated ones that show it. Thinking about this further, there is the trust between any newborn animal - wild, domesticated, and human.--
I reserve my right to "flip flop" and I am proud to be able to do with such flexibility and fluidity. At least you are honest enough to admit that you are not. Once you are incapable of being fluid, you become like ice. In effect you stop learning and flowing.
On Thursday, September 4, 2014 10:26:34 PM UTC+2, Allan Heretic wrote:Andrew, you said animals are incapable of trust and love. Great flip flop or is that extreme intellectual fluidity of which i am incapable of.
Allan
Living Soul
-----Original Message-----
From: andrew vecsey <andrew...@gmail.com>
To: mind...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye trustDomesticated animals also show great trust.--
On Thursday, September 4, 2014 10:19:54 PM UTC+2, andrew vecsey wrote:Yes I think they do. Perhaps domesticated animals are more like people than animals in the wild.
On Thursday, September 4, 2014 7:30:06 PM UTC+2, RP Singh wrote:Dogs love their masters or don't they.On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 9:53 PM, andrew vecsey <andrew...@gmail.com> wrote:
"Trusting" like "love" is one of the characteristics that humans have and animals do not.
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