Re: Mind's Eye trust

Having pointed to the negative on trust, there is a largely unexplored positive.  My dogs could rip me to shreds, but don't.  They can trust me not to have the heart to hit them.  People can live in peace.  We might ask each other what we have trust in.

On Friday, 5 September 2014 12:20:38 UTC+1, archytas wrote:

We can almost trust Allan and Andrew to be at each other's throats!  They have long reminded me of the 'Flowerpot Men' (ancient BBC kid's programme starring Gabby as 'Little Weed' - the one that kept the squabbling men in order).  I'd guess, brain-wise, that love and trust centre on the limbic system and thus we might expect mammals to do quite a lot of loving and trusting.  I am prone not to want to 'master' anything.  The dogs and cat regard me as a butler.  They trust themselves enough to eat me it the tins ever run out and to let me share their lives, mostly on their terms.

Love 'flip flops' if you think about it Andrew - fast enough for sexually transmitted diseases to thrive in all the 'trust'.  Politics is full of statements like 'it's better to have them inside the tent pissing out, than outside pissing in' and 'once you have their balls in your pocket the rest will follow' - LBJ and Nixon.  I actually wonder if our bought and paid for politicians are also compromised so that the establishment can trust them.  Maybe be Blair took us into that murderous war because they had the photographs sort of thing.

I want to give people (anyone) pretty much unconditional positive affirmation - yet I have seen the worst at work and know the love/trust orientation is a practical dud.  I think we are far too soppy about trust.  It's been considered a lot in establishment literature - Francis Fukuyama wrote some really silly stuff I used to teach as the 'Milkman theory of the universe' - milkman leaves milk 'trusting' you will pay at the end of the week.  The truth is way distant from such platitudes.  Most in here will know money is created as loans by private banks (97%) rather than government (3%).  Only one in ten of UK MPs knew when polled.  We 'trust' these idiots with the economy?  Trust and faith have a lot to do with ignorance and message manipulation - and our overestimation of our competence in judging credibility.

On Friday, 5 September 2014 09:29:37 UTC+1, Allan Heretic wrote:

If I had made your statement there would have been foundation in place support  such a comment. Sorry Andrew flip flopping is not a sign of  intelligence and fluidity. You see flip flopping a lot in politics and that comment is not a compliment on flexibility and intelligence.
Now I have made some what originally was very stupid topics meant to stir up the shit and get some conversation going. One was are we really spiritual zombies not an really a popular topic. Oddly that intentionally stupid statement as I rooted around in it I found out that the comment actually was part a sects beliefs. Truth is my beliefs actually evolved which was a surprise to me.. .. Because i thought my spiritual development was quite advanced only find out that my perspective need altering. Over the decades my beliefs have changed, not the foundation but I managed to throw out a lot of unfounded dogma & doctrine. 

In science as in beliefs there is a need to evolve. Evolution is a process not a flip flop. If you are trying flip flop to appear intelligent I feel sorry for you Andrew.

Allan
Living Soul

-----Original Message-----
From: andrew vecsey <andrewvecsey@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 7:41 AM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye trust

I am here on earth to learn and would find it very sad if I did not. Learning requires changing opinions. Niel`s commented (as I understood him) that animals do not show trust. RPs feedback to my comments pointed out to me that animals can indeed show trust. On thinking of this further, I came to an opinion that it is only domesticated ones that show it. Thinking about this further, there is the trust between any newborn animal - wild, domesticated, and human.
I reserve my right to "flip flop" and I am proud to be able to do with such flexibility and fluidity. At least you are honest enough to admit that you are not. Once you are incapable of being fluid, you become like ice. In effect you stop learning and flowing.   

On Thursday, September 4, 2014 10:26:34 PM UTC+2, Allan Heretic wrote:

Andrew, you said animals are incapable of trust and love. Great flip flop or is that extreme intellectual fluidity of which i am incapable of.

Allan
Living Soul

-----Original Message-----
From: andrew vecsey <andrew...@gmail.com>
To: mind...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye trust

Domesticated animals also show great trust.

On Thursday, September 4, 2014 10:19:54 PM UTC+2, andrew vecsey wrote:

Yes I think they do. Perhaps domesticated animals are more like people than animals in the wild.

On Thursday, September 4, 2014 7:30:06 PM UTC+2, RP Singh wrote:

Dogs love their masters or don't they.

On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 9:53 PM, andrew vecsey <andrew...@gmail.com> wrote:

"Trusting" like "love" is one of the characteristics that humans have and animals do not. 

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