Actually this statement is not wrong. Yet it misses the point of exemplifying how the mentioned dimensions are linked/ interlinked.
--Just when you thought you've had enough Joseph Campbell...
On Wednesday, September 18, 2013 4:50:21 AM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote:Grammar is not my strong point, but I believe it said what i was wanting it to say.. I was watching a program in it came up with the idea of time with the possibility of time being multi directional... now I have not had much time to give this thought this would be a good example of just what I said..
Matrix ** th3 beginning light
On Sep 17, 2013 6:03 PM, "RP Singh" <123...@gmail.com> wrote:Awareness is the quality of being aware , there are not two awareness but there may be many who are aware. Allan , kindly pay attention to the English grammar. Maybe , you meant that there might be nothing of which I was not aware , but you are wrong my friend , I am an ordinary person with limitations , so how can I be aware of what you are thinking at the moment or so many other things.--
On Tuesday, September 17, 2013 5:14:51 PM UTC+5:30, Allan Heretic wrote:could there be awareness that you are not aware of RP?On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 4:20 AM, RP Singh <123...@gmail.com> wrote:
If consciousness is not awareness then it is the Truth , God or Atman. There is no awareness in it , i.e. it is not aware and hence is non-dual Again , your consciousness is not separate from mine , i.e. there is only one Consciousness ,Truth , God or Atman. Now , this conversation is not being held by Consciousness as it is one , but between our egos or self-sense and our egos are mortal and die with this body. So what goes further after death ? nothing , just nothing! The life of our individualities or self-sense or the ' I' is limited to the body which dies and turns to dust. We can just understand Consciousness but never gain it because it was there before our birth and will remain in eternity. It was not diluted with our birth and will not be enlarged with our death.On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 9:39 PM, Molly <moll...@gmail.com> wrote:
You have not interpreted me correctly, and seem to have judged me badly. I have not said I am God. You ascribe the words of others to me, an assumption that also makes your interpretation of my words inaccurate. I have already stated that, from my view, consciousness has no object. Therefore, "I Am that" would not be consciousness, but awareness. I object to your tone, with your insinuation of "ego" and "ambition", and often resist replying to your comments because of this tendency of yours. At this point, RP, I have said all I care to say to you. I will not reply to you further.
On Monday, September 16, 2013 11:12:04 AM UTC-4, RP Singh wrote:By consciousness you mean the Self which is one , the same as god or man 'I am That' , is that not , Molly? A very great ambition really --I am God , You are God , we all are God ,there is only One and I am That. You and the seekers of Truth might fool themselves and many others that it is not their ambition to be the greatest but I personally am not fooled.The great achievers went around filling the mind of people with all that crap and they succeeded , it was amply proved by the 99 Limousines in Osho 's cavalcade. Ambition is natural in man but when it reaches the limit of immortal greatness it becomes sick.If you say 'I am That' the conversation stops , for you become all in all , so who to talk to , with oneself? Personally , Molly , no matter the amount of ego in me , I realize fully that Death will really knock on my door and when the time comes I will die and not be That.On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 7:32 PM, Molly <moll...@gmail.com> wrote:
I never said consciousness means soul, RP. You must have my comments confused with someone else's if this is what you think. You seem intent on having two different definitions of consciousness, one for God and one for man. Read my comments carefully and you will find no such distinction.You also seem intent on finding the words conscious and aware to be interchangeable. To each his own. It does make the matter difficult to discuss if there is no agreed meaning. We wind up expressing our own views and that is that. Indeed, some conversations are just that limited.
On Monday, September 16, 2013 9:17:02 AM UTC-4, RP Singh wrote:Consciousness as per your terms means 'soul' in man and Spirit in God. In the past I have noticed you using awareness in a similar manner. I being a foreigner can go only by the dictionary meaning. NONETHELESS consciousness would only be a religious word as it needs to be proved , what I see is a man who is aware or conscious of himself and the world and this is a attribute of a living organism and as for being blasphemous in today 's world , who cares?On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 6:08 PM, Molly <moll...@gmail.com> wrote:I would agree with you, and reiterate my opinion: Consciousness is. It is infinite. ... my awareness of consciousness, whether mental, emotional, spiritual or physical, can (but does not always) limit my experience of consciousness. Our viewpoint, vantage point, or sum total of our awareness in any given moment (or in some cases, the moment eternal) creates our own unique experience of life."Now, there are reputable views throughout history that agree with this take and meaning of the terms, others assign the reverse. In the end, as you say Gabby, language is empty words imparted with agreed meaning (and Logos, but that is another topic). To converse with it, semantic is clarification needed.In my opinion, consciousness has no object. When people use the term "consciousness raising" I find they refer to making the effort to heighten their awareness of consciousness. Awareness can be subjective, as in self awareness, or of an object. Paradoxically, awareness of consciousness covers both. We are more or less aware given our mental, emotional, spiritual or physical acuity.
On Monday, September 16, 2013 7:16:00 AM UTC-4, Gabby wrote:Hm, is it solely a question of aesthetics whether "I am aware of you" or "I am conscious of you" is applied in a certain context? I doubt it. It even does have e blasphemous ring to my ear, if you said that this was true. In a standard narrative prose text I would therefore mark version two as wrong. What would your correct context for version two be?2013/9/15 Molly <moll...@gmail.com>It is for each of us to discover ourselves. I don't have to prove anything, RP. That's the beauty of it. Since you haven't yet defined your own terms, I will leave it to you.
On Sunday, September 15, 2013 9:19:17 AM UTC-4, RP Singh wrote:Freud's use of consciousness is quite simple. When he uses the term conscious he means that part of our memory and motives of which we are aware , and the ' unconscious ' is that of which we are not aware but what remains in the background and influences our behaviour --these he calls repressions. Again he has a third term 'subconscious' in which we recollect our memories after a little effort.But Molly you were talking about consciousness and awareness as different , I don't see the difference , maybe you are confused and lost in a labyrinth of philosophy where you are ascribing meanings to commonplace words. Consciousness is awareness and if you say not , you have to prove it.On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 5:32 PM, Molly <moll...@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't quite understand your term either RP. I think Gabby's quote a pretty good example of how Freud applied his model of the workings of the conscious mind it interprets consciousness.Here is a Joseph Campbell take on it:"In one of the Upanishads it says, when the glow of a sunset holds you and you say 'Aha,' that is the recognition of the divinity. And when you say 'Aha' to an art object, that is a recognition of divinity. And what divinity is it? It is your divinity, which is the only divinity there is. We are all phenomenal manifestations of a divine will to live, and that will and the consciousness of life is one in all of us, and that is what artwork expresses."
Joseph Campbell, "Creativity," The Mythic Dimension, p.154
On Sunday, September 15, 2013 5:29:02 AM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote:I have no Idea what God conscious is as I am not God.. yet I would think it is a total awareness of the totality of everything. simply because everything is created from his essence.. this is not unlike our own awareness of our own body.. just an abstract though..as for freud.. ( today there are excellent translators on line so.. ) So a translation followed by an opinion..
Jokes and Their Relation to the Unconscious "by Sigmund Freud"In adults, it seems generally valid condition for the fantastic creative desire, that it to conscious thought strange, that was a repressed desire, or at least that he could consciousness have unknown reinforcements. Without adoption of the unconscious in the sense set out above, I know the theory not to develop the dream and not to interpret the experience material of dream analysis. the influence of this unconscious wish to consciousness proper material of the dream-thoughts now is the dream. latter is thereby equally pulled down into the unconscious, more specifically, exposed to a treatment as at the level of unconscious thought processes and vorkömmlich for this stage is characteristic. We know the characters of the unconscious mind and its differences from the consciousness capable "preconscious" so far only from the results of just the "dream work". "I do believe the word 'Psychobabble' describes what he said.On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 2:27 AM, gabbydott <gabb...@gmail.com> wrote:Roughly speaking, the difference is the agreed upon difference within a historically evolved sociological entity as expressed and replicated in their language. These language barriers have never stopped me in assuming I understand the topic under discussion. Ahem. Ah well, I had myself affected by Molly's impuls and looked up how Freud had solved the consciousness/ awareness confusion. Here is a language excerpt from "Der Witz und seine Beziehung zum Unbewußten" by Sigmund Freud:"Beim Erwachsenen scheint es allgemeingültige Bedingung für den traumschaffenden Wunsch, daß er dem bewußten Denken fremd, also ein verdrängter Wunsch sei, oder doch, daß er dem Bewußtsein unbekannte Verstärkungen haben könne. Ohne Annahme des Unbewußten in dem oben dargelegten Sinne wüßte ich die Theorie des Traumes nicht weiter zu entwickeln und das Erfahrungsmaterial der Traumanalysen nicht zu deuten. Die Einwirkung dieses unbewußten Wunsches auf das bewußtseinskorrekte Material der Traumgedanken ergibt nun den Traum. Letzteres wird dabei gleichsam ins Unbewußte herabgezogen, genauer gesagt, einer Behandlung ausgesetzt, wie sie auf der Stufe der unbewußten Denkvorgänge vorkömmlich und für diese Stufe charakteristisch ist. Wir kennen die Charaktere des unbewußten Denkens und dessen Unterschiede vom bewußtseinsfähigen »vorbewußten« bisher nur aus den Ergebnissen eben der »Traumarbeit«. "He speaks of Bewußt-sein and the Un-bewußt-en. The pre- and suf-fixes make the difference here. He did not really differentiate between human- and god-consciousness. Speaking of really or reality, in German we are allowed to make a difference between Realität (reality) and Wirklichkeit (reality in effect). Quite useful sometimes.2013/9/15 RP Singh <123...@gmail.com>
If consciousness is not awareness , what is it ? What is the difference between human consciousness and god-consciousness ?On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 12:51 AM, Molly <moll...@gmail.com> wrote:
I think we are confusing consciousness with awareness in the conversation. Consciousness is. It is infinite. Some say that God is consciousness and we are the limited expression, like a passing thought. I don't know about that. But I do know that my awareness of consciousness, whether mental, emotional, spiritual or physical, can (but does not always) limit my experience of consciousness. Our viewpoint, vantage point, or sum total of our awareness in any given moment (or in some cases, the moment eternal) creates our own unique experience of life.When psychologists use the term conscious mind, unconscious mind, they are referring to a specific aspect of mind - what we are and are not aware of in our experience. When Freud hijacked the term, he knew that Hermetic philosophy used it quite differently. This subtle, yet significant semantic aspect of the conversation seems to be creating barriers to communication. Agreeing on the terms is important when delving this deep.
On Friday, September 13, 2013 6:29:10 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote:Butt away pol - we'll never bottom this one. We are sort of conscious of the unconscious as we have a name for it and can be aware of such as unconscious desires at some point. The only good god is a dead one RP. Saves on the embarrassment of him not turning up when asked. I'm tempted to say a dead immortal is a bit like a Cretan saying all Cretans are liars, Gabby makes sense and other such ... though there are known counterexamples on the latter two.
On Friday, 13 September 2013 15:54:34 UTC+1, RP Singh wrote:Is an unconscious God equal to a dead one? If that were so Life with order and intelligence wouldn't come out of it. We have become so used to thinking of oblivion as death that the possibility of the greatest power to exist in an unconscious state doesn't find acceptance in our belief-systems. Consciousness or awareness is a must for us , the finite individuals , but for the One who is infinite and the source of all , it would be limiting. Consciousness is limiting as it cannot be infinite and has boundaries , also it entails two , the creator and the creation , which is against logic at least to my mind.--To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.. --To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.. --To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.. --
(
)
|_D Allan
Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out .
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out .
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out .
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out .
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out .
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out .
--
(
)
|_D Allan
Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com .
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out .
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
0 comments:
Post a Comment