Re: Mind's Eye money question

Years ago (80s) we were working on expert systems that would replace
much professional pen-pushing. We weren't much good at this then,
forever trying to make our programs more complex. I got the
impression most of my co-workers couldn't get past naive
interpretations of professional work as honest. Compared with today
the hardware was crap and compilers much less good at removing
programming bugs. We approach a time when we can all program in a
natural language that compilers can handle. There a various versions
of IBM's Watson about that might allow self-diagnosis and treatment
across the preserves of the professionals. I see some hope that we
will change to an economy based more on embodied knowledge and
transparent money.
We actually have the technology - but there are many class-war
roadblocks and privacy issues involved. We went through Molly's
experience, though in much more favourable circumstances (an
inheritance) - we took a £60K hit on my cousin's house and the probate
fees were scary with inheritance tax levied on the estate, not what we
got individually. We seem to blanch at real wealth taxes and re-
distribution (especially personally!). We probably approach a time in
which we either collapse financial money (via debt jubilee) or end up
renting what we thought we had back from the rich - though quite where
the wage income is supposed to come from I can't see unless we change.

I don't think any of this has to do with the welfare state or people
living longer - though pensions were originally promised at 70 when
workers died at 48 (relevant but discounted by massive productivity
increases). Our money system hasn't caught up with the sea change of
modernity. University College London has a database on payouts to
slavers to compensate them after abolition (abolition in 1807, but law
only in 1833 freeing only those under 6 and apprenticing the rest
until 1840 - 40 and a half hours a week for board and lodging). The
payouts to slavers were massive (40% of the Treasury budget) - slaves
got nothing. The money can be traced to such noble people as Cameron
and similar today. I think much of today's argument (often called
economics) is no better than this kind of privileged evil. I'd
suggest one aspect of money today is to force work out of those
without it by those with it - slavery or serfdom. I think 70% of this
'work' is actually unnecessary.

There are loads of instances in history where we had to kick over the
tables of existing accounting systems and I think we are in such an
age now. The vile right want to harness Allan and rigs back to a
plough, probably taking any property off them. This is a nonsense in
a time in which 2% of the population can produce all our food. An
older oldie passed me last night when I was walking Maxwell the
denture slayer. He was picking litter from the nature park. There is
plenty of stuff to do - but we can't even organise work for our
young. Money is the root of this social evil.

On 17 June, 22:53, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Quite possible.  But this one was a god send, as she first helped me
> get a power of attorney when my brother's kidneys failed so that I
> could keep up with his bills and keep the house on the market.
> Trouble was, it was right after the burst of the housing bubble so we
> couldn't sell the house.  She was actually a real estate attorney, and
> the power of attorney documents were really outside of her area.
> Interestingly enough, she is licensed in both Illinois and Michigan,
> so later accepting foreclosure documents from the process server
> addressed to my home in MI was not a problem.  Funny how things work
> out.  Synchronicity! I would have been hard pressed to find an
> attorney licensed in both states, but one just appeared at the right
> time!  there are big problems with the legal system and bwankers -
> that is for sure.  Life goes on.
>
> On Jun 17, 4:35 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > lawyers     ,,  actually I feel sorry for them as their have set them up
> > for severe spiritual difficulties..
>
> > On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 9:15 PM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I've cut my losses.  5K (attorney fee) and two years later, the bank
> > > has the house and my credit (and family's credit) rating is in tact.
> > > Life is challenging.
>
> > > On Jun 17, 8:09 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > the pack of wolves with out moral conscious.. I can not help but wonder
> > > if
> > > > that hype of person falls under the category of worshipers of the Golden
> > > > Calf..   worse yet there is nothing I can do to help you..
>
> > > > On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Money has really lost personal meaning for me as I don't much know
> > > > > what to do with it.  All avenues are manipulated, although I still
> > > > > have to make it and spend it and keep it.  finding ways to do that and
> > > > > keep it out of the hands of the bwankers is no small task.  Luckily, I
> > > > > don't have enough to really be concerned about.  CitiMortgage finally
> > > > > foreclosed on my brother's house after two and a half years of
> > > > > litigation (theirs) no communication to me except the process server
> > > > > (first at my door and then to my attorney). It was all dehumanized and
> > > > > ruthless and they ended up buying it themselves when it went up for
> > > > > auction for the worth of my brother's outstanding note.  My guess is
> > > > > that this process allowed them to collect enough money from the
> > > > > federal government to make it worth their while and then some.
>
> > > > > On Jun 17, 3:00 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > the government has the sole power to issue money..    well that is a
> > > > > lark,,
> > > > > >  i seldom touch currency any more, I do 99% via my bank card..  in
> > > > > reality
> > > > > > they are issuing my currency..
>
> > > > > > On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 5:02 AM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > It was recognised in Athens and Sparta ten centuries ago before the
> > > > > > > birth of Christ that one of the most vital prerogatives of the
> > > State
> > > > > > > was the sole right to issue money. How curious that the unique
> > > quality
> > > > > > > of this prerogative is only now being rediscovered. The "money
> > > power"
> > > > > > > which has been able to overshadow ostensibly responsible
> > > government,
> > > > > > > is not the power of the merely ultra-rich, but is nothing more nor
> > > > > > > less than a new technique designed to create and destroy money by
> > > > > > > adding and withdrawing figures in bank ledgers, without the
> > > slightest
> > > > > > > concern for the interests of the community or the real rôle that
> > > money
> > > > > > > ought to perform therein… To allow it to become a source of
> > > revenues
> > > > > > > to private issuers is to create, first, a secret and illicit arm of
> > > > > > > the government and, last, a rival power strong enough ultimately to
> > > > > > > overthrow all other forms of government.
>
> > > > > > > This from 1934 and Fred Soddy - a chemist.  Money has become
> > > > > > > government.
>
> > > > > > > On 9 June, 21:27, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Well, the cost of degree education should have come down because
> > > we
> > > > > no
> > > > > > > > longer need the classroom to disseminate knowledge and in
> > > principle
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > > should be free to air or available electronically as small cost.
> > > > > > > > University teaching wages have fallen.  Yet costs to consumers
> > > have
> > > > > > > > risen sharply.
> > > > > > > > Banking has seen an electronic revolution too  yet has also
> > > spiraled
> > > > > > > > its costs up.
> > > > > > > > Current money problems are mainly to do with financialisation -
> > > the
> > > > > > > > creation of a vast empire of money transactions that satisfy
> > > demands
> > > > > > > > for returns of about 25% on investment that can't be made in the
> > > > > > > > general model of fairly competitive capitalism.  The sources of
> > > this
> > > > > > > > 25% return have been:
> > > > > > > > 1. Looting mostly third world countries
> > > > > > > > 2. Money laundering
> > > > > > > > 3. Tax theft
> > > > > > > > 4. Various  Ponzi bubbles involving hiking asset prices
> > > > > > > > 5. Global wage arbitrage on worker salaries
> > > > > > > > 6. Thefts from pension schemes and the future (various accounting
> > > > > > > > dodges including 24 hour profit and loss)
> > > > > > > > 7. Lending money intending to foreclose
> > > > > > > > 8. Theft from tax payers through TARP/QE/Derivatives
>
> > > > > > > > This list goes on and money in this financial bubble is probably
> > > now
> > > > > > > > seeking to transfer into the real economy through asset and land
> > > > > > > > grabs.  There are a lot of papers on this - you could start
> > > > > herehttp://
> > > > > > >www.paecon.net/PAEReview/
>
> > > > > > > > This stuff is post-autistic economics.  I take the view there is
> > > a
> > > > > war
> > > > > > > > against democracy going on and we should stand up and be counted,
> > > > > even
> > > > > > > > if we are old enough to hope we can pass it by through shuffling
> > > off
> > > > > > > > the mortal coil.
>
> > > > > > > > On 9 June, 14:13, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > Living cost down?  what a dream..  living cost has gone up five
> > > > > fold..
> > > > > > > over
> > > > > > > > > here but as usual  there is denial denial and more denial..  I
> > > > > think
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > place to follow might be Ice Land where the threw a lot of top
> > > > > bankers
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > politician in prison..  then started over..   there economy is
> > > > > doing
> > > > > > > good.
>
> > > > > > > > > Actually the losses should be laid on the shoulders of those
> > > that
> > > > > > > created
> > > > > > > > > the debt and problems to start with as they are the very ones
> > > that
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > reality have caused the problems, but as usual  you will get
> > > the
> > > > > > > denial,
> > > > > > > > > denial and more denial  as they go off to rape the public one
> > > more
> > > > > > > time for
> > > > > > > > > old times sake..
>
> > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 2:38 PM, James <ashkas...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Living costs should be down, I wonder what the impacts
> > > across the
> > > > > > > board
> > > > > > > > > > are to support the financial sector's growth. We are
> > > supposed to
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > transitioning to a knowledge economy while boxed into the old
> > > > > > > Prussian
> > > > > > > > > > model of education but I hear Finland is getting good
> > > results.
> > > > > Public
> > > > > > > > > > education in China is suffering while their govt wages
> > > production
> > > > > > > wars to
> > > > > > > > > > underbid. The older generation's mantra seems to be 'people
> > > get
> > > > > what
> > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > > deserve, to hell with the rest.' Is the depression supposed
> > > to
> > > > > slow
> > > > > > > down
> > > > > > > > > > the train? Or allow further consolidation of interests to
> > > > > profiteer
> > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > > working people in a desperate situation while govt sells out
> > > on a
> > > > > > > > > > fire-sale. Somebody other than the teachers is getting paid.
> > > My
> > > > > > > feelings on
> > > > > > > > > > Chicago are getting a bit more mixed..
>
> > > > > > > > > > On 6/8/2013 11:06 PM, archytas wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > >> I think rigs has the paper-shuffling aspect of money-loss
> > > > > right.  It
> > > > > > > > > >> doesn't matter much whether this bureaucracy is Soviet
> > > Paradise
> > > > > or
> > > > > > > > > >> Corporate in form.  A recent Keiser Report gets to the
> > > issues -
> > > > > > > > > >>http://rt.com/shows/keiser-**report/episode-455-407/<
> > > > > > >http://rt.com/shows/keiser-report/episode-455-407/>- classic quotes
> > > > > > > > > >> concern that the key thing with the American Dream is that
> > > you
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > >> be asleep to believe it and that you could once pay your way
> > > > > through
> > > > > > > > > >> college with a part-time minimum wage job and now you'd
> > > have to
> > > > > do
> > > > > > > 50
> > > > > > > > > >> hours a week.  That higher education should cost more in
> > > today's
> > > > > > > > > >> technological age than in the recent past is ludicrous -
> > > > > teaching
> > > > > > > > > >> costs should be down.
>
> > > > > > > > > >> On 8 June, 08:54, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > >>> PS  good roofers are hard to find..
>
> > > > > > > > > >>> On Sat, Jun 8, 2013 at 9:54 AM, Allan H <
> > > allanh1...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > >>>> railroad right of ways..  a way for railroads to steal a
> > > mans
> > > > > > > property..
> > > > > > > > > >>>>   though it had
>
> ...
>
> read more »

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