Dear Friends,
Action makes a man a Brahmin not the birth.
With regard to cast system, it's absolutely unfair to blame any particular cast either Sarki, Baun, Gurung or Chhetri because neither of us outlined this system. It prevailed prior to 500 B.C. The % of Buddhists looks shocking in the population demography of India and Nepal because Buddha strongly condemned the debasing caste system deeply rooted in these countries before 2500 years.
I've witnessed Biswas, Gurungs, Sarkis, Bauns, Darjees and Chhetris all practicing this humiliating system until we were in the camps. I feel both Bauns and Darjees should gradually permit the free movement of Sarkis, Gurungs and so on in order to resolve this issue permanently.
From my end, the best solution is to avoid any apprehensions on sensitive issues like cast & religion anywhere we are resettled. Just stick to what law of the land is consistent to. Let's quietly ignore these outmoded practices at our home & society in order to demonstrate our commitments. Let's love to stay loved and respect to stay respected.
Thanks
Kumar Gurung
Nebraska
From: Govinda Rizal <govindarizal@gmail.com>
To: bhutaneserefugee <bhutaneserefugee@googlegroups.com>
Cc: freinds reunion <friendsreunion@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 4:19 PM
Subject: Re: [FRIENDSREUNION] Re: Seeking your kind feedback
Dear All,
Is caste system still extant in our (Bhutanese) society? What are its proofs? Could anyone specify any cases of prevalent caste system practices in our society.
I feel a few people are trying to make an issue out of extinct system for easy popularity or something else. However, it is an immense subject for academic/historical studies
What do i understand??
For a harmonious coexistence of humans with living and non living entities of the universe
On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 3:22 AM, chakra acharya <acharya_cp11@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hello All,Let me put into writing some lines.Caste System does quite well to divide people, undoubtedly. This is unthinkably saddening.It is less doubtful that an assertion cannot be deemed phony for being a genuinely phony assertion. In the Age of knowing things, barbarism seems no more than a pure ignorance.The Universe is deterministic and we are monists divested of light to know--- and lost being dualists---in the rafting shadows of cerebrum chemistry.Points to prove neither caste system nor Gods of any books exist:The first person ever to believe anything on this planet and formed belief systems were Animists. This proves that all other stories are man-made. For God we are all equal Creation. A Creator doesn't pick just one person as prophet or Avatara or messenger, if there is one. The record of one earliest God present so far is Osiris, the Egyptian God, the God of death and afterlife and a merciful redeemer, though other several Gods were there before him. He comes up in the pyramid texts as early as 24, 00 BCE.The first book ever present of religion on this face of Earth is Rig Veda (1700-1100 BCE) and it clearly says: "Gods are later than the World's production".And of every other religions Hinduism is the oldest surviving religion, which is one of many oldest religions. In Hinduism, out of the Nine Philosophical Teachings, eight of them are atheistic and one which is also called Uttar Mimiansa or Vedanta only has a place for God.There are 10,000 religions in human history in just 10,000 years, which is equal to one in each century (so many gods… so little time to know each one of these Gods).But let me prove how God is made with two social/ scientific research formulas (at least the books Gods of different religion (the other deistic God may be there, I doubt nonetheless) :# Type One Error: it is a False Positive Error, rejecting true null hypothesis# Type Two Error: It is a failure to cast aside a false negative hypothesis, the opposite of Type One Error.Example of a Type One Error: If you are walking outside in an open spring yard and hear rustling dry leaves your brain questions you: "it is a perilous creature or just the sound of breeze"?Well, if you presume that the sound is just of the wind but turns out to be a dangerous creature, you make type one error.You just become careful of what is going on around you. It is good to be careful, but your assumption doesn't become true, because the sound was of the wind.With Type One Error, undoubtedly, humans have evolved, because '' without being reproduced one cannot be pulled out of gene pool'' if it is a type two error, the other way around, Darwin asserts is rather intelligently. Take the examples of a baby child, he needs times to learn.And to know God humans do not have to be the observers; some 200, 0000 years before humans were not there and dinosaurs were frolicking across and other species. Well, if there is a God, they did not need any human observing, and yet life was moving on. To prove Gods of book as man-made is as easy for a sensible brain as anything.This Type One Error led to form belief systems as animists (the first believers of any belief system ever on this earth) who worshipped animals about 10,000 years before. And slowly these stories developed and took modern forms.One has to read all books to believe woo-woo stuff there; there is no more ignorance to seek a true God if One truly exists than any religions heretofore. And we know it is hard, if not implausible and valid, to assert there is nothing beyond (I doubt though for real).As I read various stuff of Einstein and every religious book, I believe Einstein fits to be called a better son of God, messenger or Avatara than anyone ever born, including Spinoza, Carl Sagan to match him--- Einstein). I do not mean I look down upon them—religions, but you have to pick and choose every place, verses contradicting each other, baffling mysticism---nothing less than a superb classic, however.Einstein has made it clear by saying " God does not place dice with the universe", though modern physics says that whenever you look at an electron it shifts and positions at different precarious states, the universe is deterministic governed by the Laws of Nature and Free-will to seek something of natural kind is a phantom. I do not mean I don't believe in Free Speech, I have a compatibilist's deterministic Worldview.We can cent percent prove that at least book stories and the knowing of Creator with naturalism, a way of explaining things scientifically with data and testable hypothesis. Otherwise, it is obvious that we wouldn't have had 10,000 religions and about a thousand Gods, and them being the Creators depending on geographical locations, time (century you were born), culture and non-intervention of any sort. Take, for example, 40,000 children swept by Tsunami into a whirlwind of death. Where is the God the entire world believes as intervening working?The universe is cent percent deterministic.After reading religious books of all religions, I became an atheist with reference to all religions and Gods of books ever present. Your heart bleeds puddle of blood with shreds and tears if you read books understanding them: A child has to be sacrificed, buried; wives stoned to death, veiled, kept separate, slavery carried on reaching heaven etc. I am not mentioning book. But to know who the Gods are we have to find the so-called God-told words of the oldest scriptures, and those are stories. How unfortunate! The revised books are human made, they are not as good as Darwin's as well to the knowing of Life, Universe, Mystery, and Eternity and Beyond, I bet. All religions are full of hatred to tribes and caste and clans.And the answer is certainly, yes. The genuine problem with religion is that it has all the answers; you do not need anything, not a single thing---to know the Life, Universe, Mystery and Eternity, whereas Naturalism is less inflexible and precariously telling.UPANISHADS ARE GOOD SOURCE OF WISDOM THOUGH; GOOD TO READ THEM TO GARNER SOME DEEP KNOWLEDGE, STILL CHOSING IS NECESSARY.It is a great work to do away with caste, religions etc.A reasonable hedonism only is the best way forward with learning the science of knowing things and truth. Appreciated and wish you all who are partaking to do away with this.IF ONE QUESTIONS HOW DARWIN, SAGAN, AND MOST SCIENTISTS BECAME ATHEISTS, YOU HAVE TO READ THE BOOKS OF EVERY RELIGION TO BELIEVE IN ANYTHING OF THOSE SORTS. I BECAME.If any of my friends here want to READ post-modern poetries and other kind---and how we can prove at least God of every book is man-made, and has any doubt about religions of any religion ask me, I am a freethinker, I don't belong to any book, I can give you the truth which theologists deny to give to defend useless assertion and their religions… Add me on Facebook, I will share there, written after extensive research and reading.Please go through my blog.Sincerely,Welkin Siskin (Literary and Facebook Name)From: Tej Man Monger <rayakatej_man@hotmail.com>Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 8:14 AM
To: Mission Bhutan <bhutaneserefugee@googlegroups.com>; freinds reunion <friendsreunion@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: [FRIENDSREUNION] Re: Seeking your kind feedback
Dear Suren DajuUndoubtedly, you have brought up an important and highly sensitive issue to the forum -the Caste System, where the so called higher or middle or lower castes exist. Therefore, the folks have started expressing their bitter experiences, frustrations, anger, and so on. To me, categorizing people based on their castes is a crime – it is a gross violation of Human Rights we ourselves dreamt to institutionalize in Bhutan. I know being a youth of young age am not in a position to make any suggestions. However, I would just like to share the attitude of my own parents/family.Both my parents are illiterate. I remember that my mother while in Bhutan did not eat any thing prepared at Chhetri's house. In Nepal, she started to accept foods cooked and served by Chhetris. Both my parents also used to suggest me not bring home friends of Biswokarma and Darjee castes. I managed a separate room at our hut in Beldangi camp where the entry of my friends of all castes was accepted by my parents.Now, my parents and family have got resettled in Cairns, Australia. My wife shares with me that her best friends there are of the Biswakarma caste. Our parents never objected when my wife's friends come, cook, eat and drink together. They some times also sleep at my wife's. My father also attends rites and rituals organised at Biswakarma and Darjee's houses and accepts to eat items served. This is the change I have seen at my own family. I am very much proud and thankful of my parents.The change neither comes at its own nor does it happen over night. It takes time. But the change is inevitable and thus it must come. We can not bring change by force, it must come through one's own self-evaluation, one's own understanding. We must change ourself so that others will also change with us. The change is all the matter of time.According to my opinion, diversity of people to any developed nation is its asset. We are given homes, jobs and citizenship. Let us also present the gift of new culture and tradition to our new countries. For this, we must do away unsocial and superstitious practices (with time) and lead scientific and civilised living.With thanks,Tejman Rayaka MongerMunich, GermanyFrom: govindarizal@gmail.com
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 21:50:05 +0800
Subject: Re: [FRIENDSREUNION] Re: Seeking your kind feedback
To: bhutaneserefugee@googlegroups.com; FRIENDSREUNION@googlegroups.comDear new friends in the forumYou may re-visit the old discussion and gear on the discussion from the point it reached then, rather than restart from scratch and reach nowhere again.Click HERE IT ISFor a harmonious coexistence of humans with living and non living entities of the universeOn Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 9:22 PM, Bhagirath Khatiwada <bhagirathkhatiwada@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear all,
We all know that there's caste system in our community. We all acknowledge that it is detrimental for all round development of our community. Many people pointed out earlier that education can help reduce its effects. I agree and believe that it is also a matter of time and change in our psychology. It can not be uprooted overnight as some pointed out. Let the case not be politicised. It is not a time to blame eachother. If we are really trying to work on it, it is time for all of us to think constructively. It is not Hinduism that teaches caste system. Let us not blame Hinduism for it. Next, if we blame Brahmans alone for all the evils of caste system that would be blunder from our part. Doing so is simply copying the ill political culture being lately practiced in Nepal by the political leaders for their political gain.Bhagirath Khatiwada
USAOn Jun 27, 2013 8:34 AM, "Parsuram Sharma-Luital" <parsuramluital@yahoo.com.au> wrote:Dear All,I would say that it is time to be open and admit the bottleneck we have in caste system in our society. It not about changing what has been happening and imposing our parents and seniors on this.It is not that we want to burn fire in the community by talking caste system. It is not the Bhutanese in Australia has brought issue of caste system to the knowledge of the Australian government.It is the settlement providers who work with Bhutanese have found and felt and brought out through public discussion and conferences.I can well remember that it was loud and clearly raised by the managers in International conference in Sydney without him knowing that I was sitting next him. The issue has cornered from discrimination and racial discrimination point of view to other caste by so called higher castes.Another meeting in Canberra with senior most bureaucrats and government officials, the issues was raised by the settlement workers and made a report. One example I will give is, the lady quoted in the big meeting "when a Aryan face arrives in airport from Nepal, all the Aryans are there with Khada and airport car park is full but when a Mongolian family arrives there is only Australian (while Anglo saxon) volunteer to welcome them". This has been noticed and reported. There are many cases like this.
Second point is, it is not the older parents, it is the young ones of middle age in all places having a bhahuns which has agenda of tupy palnu, jugha palnu, rakshi and masu khanay haru are bad people, hopless ones, impure ones, community destroyers, and promoting this in the name of Hindu dharma which has no link to Hinhu dharma. This is a problem.There are pandits who used to touch and sit with everyone in Nepal in the camp as normal human being. After arriving in Australia they become parmathma over night and don't touch anyone, don;t sit near the other castes they think and below them. What is this? is it culture, dharma, caste, discrimination. hatred???
Bahuns and another caste go to supermarket and buy a 2 litre mink from same shelf. After reaching the home, milk of another caste becomes instantly impure and Bhanu will not drink, in the pretext of my choice, I am in barta, i just had etc...but the same milk he can drink in his home. What is this???? Freedom, choice, Human rights, culture???The other point is one who has faced the caste system knows better than the advocates who think it is my parampara came from my bhajay ko pala. I have nothing to do with it.I can proudly say, I have privilege of status in the society and I have married MAGGAR KO CHORI. I even faced discrimination on caste because of my wife. I get different treatment compared to other caste who have less exposure and status. Only the people who has banged the toes in the stone know the pain, not the passive observer and writing for the sake of arguing. In fact more point has to come from the victims here.We will be joking, kidding and fooling if we say we have no caste system and are fine. Don't kill the another generation by telling that was/is our culture. It is we who are responsible for discriminating others in the name of culture and freedom and parampara.All have resettled in the west where freedom and human rights is fundamental to everyone. We have taken oath that we will abide by the law of the new nation. Freedom and Human Rights comes with responsibility first to obey the law of the new nation, and then follow your culture by obeying the law. But our people have become more personal by openly criticizing on what one eats and drinks. People who follow one God in Hindu is more higher than other other?? If a mongolian is invited in bhajan, kirtan, puja, biha. bhoj and others they are indirectly barred to take part with other buhuns equally. They forced to feel guilty that they have to sit at the end or come last to eat. What is this??? Is it not discrimination based on race and look and existence?? What you call this, mero bhajay ko pala ko culture???Whenever the issues come of Caste we say Nepal, India. Why the hell we have to refer them? Why we hesitate to say the CASTE SYSTEM IS HELL, we are devil, we demonize one person who look different in our society.I can say and take promise/oath in front of millions gods by touching all the SACRED BHGAWAT GITAS AND OTHER UPNISADS THAT WE HAVE caste system in Bhutanese community. I am happy to take the fate and outcome of this. We hate people based in caste and happy to stand in any court of the world to testify this. I make no apology for writing this.I have raised this in Geneva at UNHCR in the confidential meeting with the most senior officials. I chocked and broke down with tears from my eyes when I spoke this. UNHCR confirmed me by saying that they knew it from very beginning but said that I am the only person to openly raise this issue with guts. I am not brave here but the humiliation my wife faces and many others who had mix marriages faces indirectly has given me the courage to spell it out.Many buhuns will hate me for speaking this, I don't give a damn and will not budge one inch on this.I agree we have to educate people and bring awareness but not by telling that we are okay we have followed in Nepal and Bhutan and can pass on in West the same way. No, we cannot! Someone has to come up.The situation is different, we are in the free society with equal rights as human being under one law. We should all criticize this and blame all of us.It is not to blame our parents, it is blame who is above 20 years today. because we all above 20 years failed to tell our parents all castes are same, we need to treat all as one. We never bother to convince our parents that it is okey to have a glass of milk in neighbors house as long as it is clean, hygienic and offered with respect and caste does not dilute milk with water that used to happen in Nepal.I will ask Adelaide team to be bold to thrash out the root of this. i will be meeting the senior officials of DIAc and policy advisers and researchers and consultant of the Ministers and will raise in every forum we have this hell caste system with us.It is a reality and fact we follow the heinous crime of treating people differently and happy to challenge anyone in the Bhutanese community and beyond openly. My number is +61 412265317.Now I know I will be kicked up and down, this is okey and this will further make me strong to fight on caste system and it will be the proof that even people who can write email also practice caste system. Please throw your shots and have a go at me.KEEP YOUR CASTE AND PRESERVE IT BUT TREAT ALL PEOPLE (ALL CASTES) LIKE YOU TREAT YOUR GOD WITH NO LESS DIGNITY RESPECT THAN YOU WANT FROM OTHERS.My own saying ParsuParsuFrom: Suren Ghaley <surengh@hotmail.com>
To: "bhutaneserefugee@googlegroups.com" <bhutaneserefugee@googlegroups.com>; BhutaneseSA <bhutaneseinsouthaustralia@googlegroups.com>; "friendsreunion@googlegroups.com" <friendsreunion@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 8:58 AM
Subject: Seeking your kind feedback
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to mailto:bhutaneserefugee%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com.--Dear AllI am writing to inform you that the Department of Immigration and Citizenship, Adelaide Office has called Bhutanese Australian Association of South Australia (BAASA) to discuss the caste issues currently being faced within the Bhutanese society. The representatives of South Australian Police and Equal Opportunity Commission SA, will be attending this meeting on the 1st July.I am therefore, writing with high expectation of getting your inputs, suggestions and comments and ways to work to address the CASTE ISSUES within our society. Your feedbacks will be shared during the meeting, and this will also help us to present all angles of this issue to the Government of Australia.I look forward to your contributions and participation.Kind regardsSuren GhaleyBAASA
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