Re: Mind's Eye Re: deep thought

I've found reading and writing more or less impossible for about 10
years now - this may seem odd as I do a lot of both. More or less
nothing comes without baggage I don't want and, of course, nothing
survives the deconstruction of science or serious history. I know I
don't really want much more than a few friends and security - but even
this is to want a radically different society. Words are so
difficult. Religion is a very difficult example. I'm not against
what Molly or Gabby or Don do with it in their different ways - but it
remains a control fraud in my world-view. Old stories in academe have
the congregation as undergraduates, the sermon deliverers as masters
and PhDs and researchers as the content and truth producers.
Hierarchy is a religious term in origin. I'm revolted, less by the
thought of this fiction, than the ease with which many swallow it.

There is a spiral dynamic at work - we used to consider such in terms
of RSVP cycles or an orchestra practising - you sort of (mostly) are
never starting at the beginning but join in the cycle. A colleague
did a PhD on the children's writer Enid Blyton - fair enough - one can
investigate anything. I have no problem with this in-itself. The
model sadly extends to
a great deal of teaching in which the fictional nature of text-made-
basic is elided. I doubt you know more management and economics after
spending time with business school books, than you would after reading
a few decent novels. A contradiction in all non-science learning
concerns making texts into Idols to worship.

Science only takes us so far and at heart is not very philosophical.
I favour gardening and cooking analogies - the 'theory' has been
called tropical fish realism. I follow advice from science books much
as I follow gardening and cooking books - and think here, given
equality of kitchen materials and food - whether we'd choose to eat my
cooking or rigs'! Skill factors not always in the books and
experiential learning are important. I spend time reading really
complex stuff on the history of science - mostly German work of late
and I'm not at all sure I understand better without the translation.
My story of science starts in approximation by creatures of gravity in
co-evolution - but gravity remains a label. This is some way from
growing plants with recommended amounts of fertiliser, nematode
biological warfare against slugs and strict instruction against
digging in my raised beds to the cats and dog.

Our cats all strayed in at some time and we have a male ginger that
still doesn't trust me (one wonders on the poor thing's past trauma).




On May 13, 11:46 pm, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Not quite sure of your focus James.  In terns of models, I like Spiral
> Dynamics.  It allows the recognition and inclusion of everyone in
> their own terms.
>
> On May 12, 11:19 pm, James <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > You have a rapt audience Molly, I have many questions. I would be very
> > interested in information regarding child developmental psychology and
> > any individuals who have a story of their experiences and reflections
> > written. I understand there are many types of people out there and I
> > didn't think there was a word for it at all other than 'freak'. If you
> > have knowledge on this I can't express how valuable some would find it.
>
> > Do any of them feel like a 'pool of reflection'? Sensitivity to lying
> > and deceit? Is there any norm, parallels with autism, can they freely
> > dissociate (as in the complex, but the book is useless in this
> > instance)? Any statistical research out there, or terms I can use to
> > find more? Spare nothing please, I will cripple google with the fury of
> > my searches on your every word.
>
> > On 5/12/2013 9:30 AM, Allan H wrote:
>
> > > I agree with you Molly
>
> > > On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 2:53 PM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com
> > > <mailto:mollyb...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> > >     " I seem to learn in reverse starting with an
> > >     intuitive bond but I'm no genius just weird"
>
> > >     IMHO being in-tune with the unseen (or infinite) is a particularly
> > >     sensitive and rare form of perception.  I am always surprised and
> > >     delighted to find such a person.  Listening to our instincts and
> > >     intuitions first, and allowing the material world to validate
> > >     naturally is living life inside out.
>
> > >     On May 11, 11:59 pm, James <ashkas...@gmail.com
> > >     <mailto:ashkas...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > >     > Glad you said it Allan, my enthusiasm told me to leave the box
> > >     alone. I
> > >     > think the term 'unknown commodity' fits, and there are some strange
> > >     > varieties out there as I've known at least one, others are
> > >     suspect but
> > >     > as I can see how they would be driven nuts I won't be out there
> > >     > interviewing. The curiosity crosses my mind at times on the rare
> > >     > occasion that I catch the news of whether someone was just
> > >     another dumb
> > >     > nut or did we just lose another potential major asset to
> > >     civilization.
> > >     > Yes, if we worked to meet the needs of all without exception, I said
> > >     > this exact thing to someone regarding cultural integration the
> > >     other day
> > >     > in regards to our cultural isolation. An ounce of prevention.. a
> > >     pound
> > >     > of agression. It isn't even in the common vernacular I'm afraid.
>
> > >     > I am at a loss for meaning to your last sentence my instincts
> > >     throw up
> > >     > red flags on the subject. A few times I've been able to approach the
> > >     > subject by reassociating an external self to see things as a
> > >     story that
> > >     > I was free to speak the truth of and pursue compassion and say
> > >     'Im so
> > >     > sorry that...', as an older person would say to a child. It's still
> > >     > blank though, push some more and blank to freeze (it's good to
> > >     know the
> > >     > physiological effects of stress disorders there), push more and
> > >     it's  .
> > >     > morning shits and shakes for a few plus temporary immune system
> > >     > shutdown. There are a variety of mental disciplines, meditative
> > >     > techniques, insights into my nature, and preventive disciplines
> > >     that can
> > >     > be derived from experiences but I can't tell him 'you deserve
> > >     better'
> > >     > because it's relevance ends as a gesture. The process is
> > >     intuitive with
> > >     > others, a born talent, I seem to learn in reverse starting with an
> > >     > intuitive bond but I'm no genius just weird. ;-) My sense of
> > >     humor is
> > >     > improving though, not being understood is so damn BORING, it's
> > >     enough to
> > >     > make a person develop ADHD.
>
> > >     > On 5/11/2013 8:11 AM, Allan H wrote:
>
> > >     > > there is great value in systematic enlightenment,,,  I also think
> > >     > > though that in needs to be a attachment to those out of the
> > >     box and
> > >     > > not dismissing them..  knowledge and access to it is spread
> > >     through
> > >     > > out humanity.   the problems comes when someone starts saying I
> > >     > > deserve more.
>
> > >     > > On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 3:23 AM, James <ashkas...@gmail.com
> > >     <mailto:ashkas...@gmail.com>
> > >     > > <mailto:ashkas...@gmail.com <mailto:ashkas...@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>
> > >     > >     I agree that learning is self taught on the condition that
> > >     most of
> > >     > >     the means and content is circumstantial and not chosen,
> > >     > >     'systematique' is an abstraction and so for most I think
> > >     it has
> > >     > >     referential truth (as a resource) but not process modeling
> > >     truth
> > >     > >     until the mind has worked out components, inner systems and
> > >     > >     interactions.
>
> > >     > >     An aim for building problem solving intelligence, developing
> > >     > >     experience with the tools of learning and skill in adapting
> > >     > >     skills/knowledge to solve novel (relatively) problems
> > >     seems a good
> > >     > >     rough-draft purpose. The building blocks are important,
> > >     they don't
> > >     > >     fall into arrangement the same for everyone though and
> > >     that makes
> > >     > >     it challenging. I've had a few days where the teachers
> > >     instruction
> > >     > >     seemed a variation on 'first world problems' and many of my
> > >     > >     schoolmates were hardened in that way, this is a known
> > >     unknown,
> > >     > >     the challenge is an opportunity I think.
>
> > >     > >     Gabby I was pulling a Marvin the Martian earlier, my
> > >     general usage
> > >     > >     of enlightenment seems to be similar to Allan's, or as a
> > >     'piercing
> > >     > >     a veil of ignorance'. I hoped to get a view from Konara,
> > >     but your
> > >     > >     tips were, hmm 'enlightening' nonetheless. ;-)
>
> > >     > >     On 5/9/2013 9:27 PM, rigs wrote:
>
> > >     > >         You need basic skills to begin with, however, and
> > >     these are
> > >     > >         only as
> > >     > >         successful as certain other qualities/opportunities
> > >     are present or
> > >     > >         attainable. Morality is generally picked up from
> > >     family, tribe,
> > >     > >         nation, religion, political theory. There are plenty of
> > >     > >         examples of
> > >     > >         evil or poor choices made by popular consent/majority
> > >     opinion.
> > >     > >         What is
> > >     > >         the ultimate purpose of education? Wisdom? Income? Etc.?
>
> > >     > >         On May 9, 4:11 pm, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com
> > >     <mailto:gabbyd...@gmail.com>
> > >     > >         <mailto:gabbyd...@gmail.com
> > >     <mailto:gabbyd...@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>
> > >     > >             What Neil says is that all learning is self taught
> > >     - and
> > >     > >             so you are always
> > >     > >             successful. The question here is what you learn.
> > >     The moral
> > >     > >             that you acquire
> > >     > >             while learning sans systematique is definitely more
> > >     > >             difficult to justify,
> > >     > >             yes.
>
> > >     > >             2013/5/9 Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com
> > >     <mailto:allanh1...@gmail.com>
> > >     > >             <mailto:allanh1...@gmail.com
> > >     <mailto:allanh1...@gmail.com>>>
>
> > >     > >                 Interesting the self taught often succeed..
> > >      could be
> > >     > >                 it seems what they
> > >     > >                 do not learn appearantly is morality  or how to
> > >     > >                 justify their actions..
> > >     > >                 On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 2:20 AM, rigs
> > >     > >                 <rigs...@gmail.com <mailto:rigs...@gmail.com>
> > >     <mailto:rigs...@gmail.com <mailto:rigs...@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>
> > >     > >                     I don't know either work referred to but
> > >     not sure
> > >     > >                     society could
> > >     > >                     tolerate this kind of freedom in education or
> > >     > >                     workplace with a few
> > >     > >                     exceptions. Funny, but the self-taught often
> > >     > >                     succeed. Anyway, society
> > >     > >                     needs to control its education and workplaces-
> > >     > >                     esp. since the
> > >     > >                     Industrial Revolution. Another thought is the
> > >     > >                     object of work<education
> > >     > >                     is often just about money though many are
> > >     > >                     dedicated to ideals and
> > >     > >                     service and money is an afterthought or
> > >     nevermind.
> > >     > >                     On May 7, 1:46 pm, archytas
> > >     <nwte...@gmail.com <mailto:nwte...@gmail.com>
> > >     > >                     <mailto:nwte...@gmail.com
> > >
>
> ...
>
> read more »

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