Wednesday, March 27, 2013

Re: Mind's Eye Re: Good and bad

Ah, the typical Hipster Zeitgeist self-positioning - please consume with ironic detachment. No, I don't support artificial sweeteners (bad). I prefer taking the truth with a grain of salt (good).


2013/3/27 James <ashkashal@gmail.com>
It seems to me that the task is set between a conditioned identity that adapts and acquires knowledge about a perceptual environment mostly subconsciously on one hand and the other is managing an exchange between acquired directives and the challenge of inadequacies (even when wicked and intractable problems present themselves). How the perceptual environment is absorbed I think has a lot to do with individual traits, but it seems that however many levels of emergent systems are involved there is interaction, communication and adaptation of the different layers (levels, systems, what have you).

Where it gets interesting is that the background gets filled in while trying to understand and explain the apparent and intuitive. That space is where I see the identity acting as an agent, but more than an agent operating within a 'bounded rationality' (per se) but a construct of multiple motives competing for attention, recognition, expression underlying the persona or more intimately self image and ultimately attenuating the brain to operate within the basic parameters of this environment for better or worse.

This hypothetical view or variations and thinking systematically helps tame my brain's attenuations, it doesn't seem to be adapted well to me but I manage to patch things up here and there with discipline or bypassing circuits. Long ago my world was fire and ice, now it has to be bridged somehow- reset the task, it is the same but different with some place shifting.. I am right-brain dominant gabby, it is fitting to have a sense of irony about my ideas, especially my earlier message. :)


On 3/26/2013 3:39 AM, gabbydott wrote:
Unfortunately, no. My agency does not operate on the basis of an innate, pre-programmed best behavior pattern, it co-develops with me, and I better define it the best behavior I can show, which is not true, of course, but it helps me with my environment. Sorry, who set the task?


2013/3/26 James <ashkashal@gmail.com <mailto:ashkashal@gmail.com>>


    If distortions are the best we can muster lets hope they fit the
    task at hand, now what that is and where in environment and
    identity seems very defining no?


    On 3/25/2013 5:02 PM, gabbydott wrote:

        The Big Picture via distorting filters onto Big Data?


        2013/3/24 andrew vecsey <andrewvecsey@gmail.com
        <mailto:andrewvecsey@gmail.com> <mailto:andrewvecsey@gmail.com

        <mailto:andrewvecsey@gmail.com>>>


            I do not think that we lie to our self so much as that we only
            see/hear what we want to see/hear. Also we tend to say what we
            think the other persons wants to hear or say things to
        hurt other
            people.

            On Sunday, March 24, 2013 10:46:03 AM UTC+1, rigs wrote:

                I am more interested in why we lie to ourselves, suppress
                reality and
                snarl logic in our brains. There are life and death
        moments of
                survival, I suppose, but much of our potential is
        engineered
                by family
                and culture in order to achieve some sort of control and
                order. Even
                rebels are often little more than a reaction. Pretense and
                etiquette
                are often the same thing.//I must have "lost" my
        thought re "big
                data"/"Big Daddy? as an organizer of human knowledge
        versus the
                present scatterings and specialties.// Yes- I agree
        most have
                a gut
                reaction- but so do other life forms- it's a survival
                mechanism. But
                it can be distorted.

                On Mar 24, 4:12 am, andrew vecsey
        <andrewvec...@gmail.com <mailto:andrewvec...@gmail.com>> wrote:
                > Faked enthusiasm is as easy to spot as fake love. It
        is like
                a built in
                > like a lie detector that god created us with. Sounds
        like a
                good way to
                > detect lying on the internet. You can call it "god"
        instead
                of "big
                > brother".
                >
                > On Saturday, March 23, 2013 6:08:39 PM UTC+1,
        archytas wrote:
                >
                > .....................
                >
                >
                >
                > > Quite what junk DNA is has raised a big recent
        controversy
                - gist at
                >
                >
                       >http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2013/feb/24/scientists-attacked-ove...

                > > I agree with rigs that the term is unfortunate.
                >
                > > ........but I could feign 'enthusiasm' ..
                > > ........' to detect resistance!  Even this
                > > .....no employees dumb enough to support
                > > excellence, ......
                > > if we spent out time pointing such devices at
                > > each other though rigs!  Watch out for the first one
                minute dating
                > > agency providing such!  Arghh" .
                >
                > > On Mar 22, 1:06 pm, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com
        <mailto:rigs...@gmail.com>> wrote:
                > > > Junk is an unfortunate adjective- it sounds too
        random.
                My guess is
                > > > that further selection takes place in this area
        which
                selects the
                > > > strongest marker- or whatever it's called- such
        in the
                color of eyes,
                > > > hair, and other characteristics. There are also
                generational skips in
                > > > play. I have noted other strange echoes of a missing
                parent such as
                > > > the style of laughter which is a surprise and so
        many other
                > > > recognitions. At any rate, we are just beginning
        to sort
                through the
                > > > data in this one area as in others- I think it
        is called
                "big data"
                > > > which will overcome the religious notion of
        "sins of the
                father" stuff
                > > > as well as curses and fate and will hopefully
        allow a
                more rational
                > > > and postive approach/life choices for each unique
                individual. But it
                > > > will also cause mischief.
                >
                > > > On Mar 22, 5:16 am, andrew vecsey
                <andrewvec...@gmail.com
        <mailto:andrewvec...@gmail.com>> wrote:
                >
                > > > > Not all DNA code for protein. We have non
        coding DNA
                called "junk DNA"
                > > that
                > > > > ensure we are all unique. While normal DNA
        codes for
                protein to make,
                > > for
                > > > > example a "nose", junk DNA ensures that we
        grow a nose
                that "looks"
                > > like a
                > > > > mixture of our father`s and our mother`s nose.
                >
                > > > > On Friday, March 22, 2013 12:36:39 AM UTC+1,
        Ash wrote:
                >
                > > > > > My thoughts didn't include "junk DNA", my
        thinking
                on such terms are
                > > > > > mixed in that some genes may not be useful or
                represent just another
                > > > > > failure point, but also that the supposed
        junk in
                one set of
                > > > > > circumstances may prove quite beneficial in
        others
                like a backup, an
                > > > > > alternate development chain or complex
                interdependencies we haven't
                > > > > > observed yet. You may have a connection in
        mind I
                haven't gleaned.
                >
                > > > > > Developing the market sounds similar but I
        am trying
                to root out an
                > > > > > aspect of this that doesn't require jumping to a
                premature
                > > conclusion,
                > > > > > such as in 'intelligent design',
        materialism, rigid
                ontologies or
                > > > > > realism. Thanks for helping me explore here
        gabby,
                lets hope some
                > > form
                > > > > > emerges in expression. :)
                >
                > > > > > On 3/21/2013 3:57 AM, gabbydott wrote:
                > > > > > > Now that sounds more like you. :)
                > > > > > > What you are describing or asking I now
                understand/interpret/hear
                > > in
                > > > > > > terms of what I know about what they are
        trying to
                find out about
                > > > > > > "junk DNA". Its purpose/function/added
        value. As
                for what you
                > > describe
                > > > > > > as another way, I know/experience/see this
        in what
                the companies
                > > > > > > describe as "developing the market". We
        are still
                on topic, aren't
                > > we?
                >
                > > > > > > 2013/3/21 James <ashk...@gmail.com
        <mailto:ashk...@gmail.com> <javascript:>
                <mailto:
                > > > > > ashk...@gmail.com <mailto:ashk...@gmail.com>

        <javascript:>>>
                >
                > > > > > >     I have a feeling you are being
        charitable with
                me gabby
                > > (cringe).
                > > > > > >     What you say makes sense, and should
        add that
                the intent I
                > > refer
                > > > > > >     to is in excess of that needed for
        mere gene
                survival fitness.
                > > In
                > > > > > >     that sense I consider the adaptations as
                simulations and the
                > > > > > >     excess as breaking the barriers of
                meta-simulation, or in
                > > another
                > > > > > >     way, not just running within time but
                operating on it by
                > > taking
                > > > > > >     advantage of the rules and finding ways to
                bend them. Now it
                > > is my
                > > > > > >     turn to ask, does that make sense [to
        anyone]?
                >
                > > > > > >     On 3/20/2013 3:01 AM, gabbydott wrote:
                >
                > > > > > >         I don't know if this is good or
        bad, but i
                hear that you
                > > > > > >         haven't just heard about mirror
        neurons,
                that this is a
                > > > > > > relatively consciously made up construct,
                a construct with
                > > > > > >         intent or purpose. Also it sounds
        strange
                when you say
                > > that
                > > > > > >         this neurological mechanism is
        strange (to
                you). That's
                > > where
                > > > > > >         my "parallel mirror neurons" come into
                play, i compare
                > > what
                > > > > > >         you say with what i have heard you
        saying
                before and add
                > > the
                > > > > > >         info as well as my judgement on
        what you
                say to my
                > > internal
                > > > > > > "Virtualization" of you. The leap is more
                of a constant
                > > > > > >         exercise of differentiating
        between you
                and me while
                > > operating
                > > > > > >         on the virtualization of each
        participant,
                so to speak.
                > > Does
                > > > > > >         that somehow make sense to you?
                >
                > > > > > >         Of course, I could go back to the
        group
                website and search
                > > for
                > > > > > >         the real data on what you have
        been saying
                on neurological
                > > > > > > mechanisms. But this would be a completely
                new project.
                > > I'd
                > > > > > >         have to go back and construct a
        new image
                with my
                > > knowledge of
                > > > > > >         now.
                >
                > > > > > >         But since you are still alive and
        still
                communicating, I
                > > find
                > > > > > >         it much easier and more purposeful
        to keep
                on listening to
                > > > > > >         what you say, to respond to it, and to
                rely on you saying,
                > > if
                > > > > > >         you disagree. Not a good position
        for me
                to be in, more of
                > > a
                > > > > > >         survival strategy. Now that's
        worth a leap
                into rethinking
                > > > > > >         mode. ;)
                >
                > > > > > > 2013/3/20 James <ashk...@gmail.com
        <mailto:ashk...@gmail.com>
                <javascript:>
                > > > > > > <mailto:ashk...@gmail.com
        <mailto:ashk...@gmail.com> <javascript:>>
                <mailto:
                > > > > > ashk...@gmail.com <mailto:ashk...@gmail.com>
        <javascript:>
                > > > > > > <mailto:ashk...@gmail.com

        <mailto:ashk...@gmail.com> <javascript:>>>>
                >
                > > > > > >             My response was mostly a parallel
                narrative, my
                > > thinking on
                > > > > > a
                > > > > > > personal level is when does a system
                of components
                > > > > > > transcend the
                > > > > > > boudaries of automata and begin to
                engage in the
                > > operations
                > > > > > of
                > > > > > > intent. Where does gene fitness
                adaptation break loose
                > > into
                > > > > > > something perceiving, interacting,
                understanding and
                > > > > > > mastering? I
                > > > > > >             have heard that our ability to
        reflect
                and interact on
                > > an
                > > > > > >         intimate
                > > > > > > level arises from a strange
                neurological mechanism
                > > called
                > > > > > >         mirror
                > > > > > > neurons. If this is something like the
                virtualization
                > > > > > > technologies
                > > > > > >             we have been building in
        technology
                then with a bit
                > > more
                > > > > > >         scale and
                > > > > > > pondering our science may make the leap
                > > logarithmically.
                >
                > > > > > >             On 3/18/2013 8:15 PM, James wrote:
                >
                > > > > > > I see this sometimes too Andrew,
                and we learn how
                > > our
                > > > > > >         internal
                > > > > > > systems and culture drive and
                shape us, so we can
                > > > > > >         create. We
                > > > > > > model from the simplest sensory
                stimuli on to
                > > > > > > reflections on
                > > > > > > the nature of our existence and
                what could be in a
                > > > > > > simultaneous simulation of reality. Our
        world can
                > > be
                > > > > > >         full of
                > > > > > > intent, or I should say we
                experience it thus due
                > > to our
                > > > > > > capacity arising from our nature
                and drawing
                > > parables
                > > > > > >         in the
                > > > > > > mist. It makes me wonder how many
                levels of
                > > abstraction,
                > > > > > > simulation and foresight are necessary to
                > > represent
                > > > > > >         the human
                > > > > > > element. That minds like ours are
                derived from
                > > nature is
                > > > > > > astonishing and awe inspiring, that we
        reach so
                > > far
                > > > > > >         and yet
                > > > > > > innocence is so fragile, the experience of
                > > awareness
                > > > > > >         is far
                > > > > > > from today's science I think. Our
                synthetic
                > > > > > > counterparts or
                > > > > > > robots will have to wait.
                >
                > > > > > > On 3/13/2013 5:35 AM, andrew
                vecsey wrote:
                >
                > > > > > > Perhaps we are born into a world filled with
                > > > > > negative
                > > > > > > aspects rather than positive aspects so as to
                > > give
                > > > > > >         us a
                > > > > > > direction. We are born small so that we can
                > > grow.
                > > > > > >         We are
                > > > > > >     born ignorant so that we could
                know. We are
                > > born
                > > > > > with
                > > > > > > negative aspects so that we could acquire
                > > positive
                > > > > > >         ones.
                >
                > > > > > >     On Monday, January 28, 2013
                12:11:39 PM UTC+1,
                > > > > > andrew
                > > > > > > vecsey wrote:
                >
                > > > > > > Why do so many of us remember negative
                > > > > > >         feelings easier
                > > > > > >     than
                > > > > > > positive ones. Pain over
                >
                > ...
                >
                > read more »- Hide quoted text -
                >
                > - Show quoted text -

            --
            ---
            You received this message because you are subscribed to
        the Google
            Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
            To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
        from it,
            send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
        <mailto:minds-eye%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
            <mailto:minds-eye%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
        <mailto:minds-eye%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>>.


            For more options, visit
        https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.



        --
        ---
        You received this message because you are subscribed to the
        Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
        To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
        it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

        <mailto:minds-eye%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>.
        For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.



    --
    --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the
    Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
    To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
    send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
    <mailto:minds-eye%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>.
    For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.



--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.



--

--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.



--
 
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
 
 

0 comments:

Post a Comment