On Wednesday, 28 November 2012 09:38:32 UTC, Allan Heretic wrote:
Playing to the lowest common denominator is probably the greatest--
reason of you can give..It shows the mental ability of the those who
plan what the public views
Allan
On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 10:28 AM, Lee Douglas <leerev...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Perhap it is just TV playing to the lowest common demominator?
>
>
> On Tuesday, 27 November 2012 02:45:36 UTC, archytas wrote:
>>
>> Not seen Chris or Charles Don. Hicks, a few derivative references
>> apart, could have been a Brit. Our cultures are probably less far
>> apart than such matters as the absence of footpaths in the States.
>> Our serious comedy is mostly political satire from Yes Minister to The
>> Thick of It. What I was wondering was whether any one else feels more
>> general film and literature has gone Tragic and plots and characters
>> less and less comedic in the old Greek sense. Our old sitcoms like
>> Dads' Army, Steptoe and Son and plenty of others had a great element
>> of 'daft people like me and you caught in a plight and muddling
>> through'. Bilko and Top Cat had this too. A fairly recent French
>> fil,m Mario et Jeanette had this.
>>
>> On 27 Nov, 00:40, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 6:15 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > At other levels I think we should be ridiculing such matters as the
>> > > absence of disabled people in politically correct newsrooms and such.
>> >
>> > What about Chris Mathews? budda bump bump
>> >
>> > Charles Krauthammer, in contrast, is a paraplegic but ok from the neck
>> > up.
>> > Most people don't even know about his disability because it's not
>> > relavent.
>> > We like his commentary.
>> >
>> > dj
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Saturday, November 24, 2012 6:15:40 PM UTC-6, archytas wrote:
>> >
>> > > The Brits do more nob gags and used to pack theatres to see a guy play
>> > > the trombone with ass-gas- needless to say a Frenchman. Audience
>> > > milking is central to some humour - this tends to put me off, but some
>> > > are so good at it I don't notice until afterwards. US comedy films
>> > > are usually dross, but your stand-ups usually great. My recent
>> > > favourite is 'The Pope's Toilet' from Uruguay. The hero rides a bike
>> > > everywhere and his wife describes him as lacking pump for a bicycle
>> > > man. Why do the French smell? So even the blind can hate them. Why
>> > > would you find an Irishman in the Alps? Where else would you find a
>> > > downhill lake. Irish jokes are Belgian, Polish and Swedish etc.
>> >
>> > > At other levels I think we should be ridiculing such matters as the
>> > > absence of disabled people in politically correct newsrooms and such.
>> >
>> > > On 24 Nov, 21:46, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > Over here, social workers have taken kids off foster parents because
>> > > > of their membership of UKIP - a party that shares the desire of 65%
>> > > > of
>> > > > the population to leave the EU and restrict immigration. You have
>> > > > to
>> > > > laugh - or cry!
>> >
>> > > > On 24 Nov, 21:38, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > > > Morecambe and Wise with Mum and Dad at Xmas perhaps. Laurel and
>> > > > > Hardy. Many other popular comedians are more likely to make me
>> > > > > weep.
>> > > > > I never liked Chaplin (actually thinking Hitler more of a comedian
>> > > > > than 'The Dictator') and we had Cannon and Ball here who hit a
>> > > > > nerve I
>> > > > > don't like. I can laugh with some of the ostensibly more
>> > > > > vicious
>> > > > > types like Bill Hicks and Frankie Boyle. Police and army culture
>> > > > > reveres tough, sadistic humour with self-depreciation thrown in.
>> >
>> > > > > I'm against speech crime but it's also clear not everything goes.
>> > > > > I
>> > > > > don't agree with the Greek split - it's from Stanford EP -
>> > > > > suspecting
>> > > > > humour is closely linked with breakthrough thinking (though not
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > same) and unseating the biological trance of hierarchy (The Name
>> > > > > of
>> > > > > the Rose).
>> >
>> > > > > The SEP article concludes:
>> >
>> > > > > Along with the idealism of tragedy goes elitism. The people who
>> > > > > matter
>> > > > > in tragedy are kings, queens, and generals. In comedy there are
>> > > > > more
>> > > > > characters and more kinds of characters, women are more prominent,
>> > > > > and
>> > > > > many protagonists come from lower classes. Everybody counts for
>> > > > > one.
>> > > > > That shows in the language of comedy, which, unlike the elevated
>> > > > > language of tragedy, is common speech. The basic unit in tragedy
>> > > > > is
>> > > > > the individual, in comedy it is the family, group of friends, or
>> > > > > bunch
>> > > > > of co-workers.
>> >
>> > > > > While tragic heroes are emotionally engaged with their problems,
>> > > > > comic
>> > > > > protagonists show emotional disengagement. They think, rather than
>> > > > > feel, their way through difficulties. By presenting such
>> > > > > characters as
>> > > > > role models, comedy has implicitly valorized the benefits of humor
>> > > > > that are now being empirically verified, such as that it is
>> > > > > psychologically and physically healthy, it fosters mental
>> > > > > flexibility,
>> > > > > and it serves as a social lubricant. With a few exceptions like
>> > > > > Aquinas, philosophers have ignored these benefits.
>> >
>> > > > > If philosophers wanted to undo the traditional prejudices against
>> > > > > humor, they might consider the affinities between one contemporary
>> > > > > genre of comedy—standup comedy—and philosophy itself. There are at
>> > > > > least seven. First, standup comedy and philosophy are
>> > > > > conversational:
>> > > > > like the dialogue format that started with Plato, standup routines
>> > > > > are
>> > > > > interactive. Second, both reflect on familiar experiences,
>> > > > > especially
>> > > > > puzzling ones. We wake from a vivid dream, for example, not sure
>> > > > > what
>> > > > > has happened and what is happening. Third, like philosophers,
>> > > > > standup
>> > > > > comics often approach puzzling experiences with questions. "If I
>> > > > > thought that dream was real, how do I know that I'm not dreaming
>> > > > > right
>> > > > > now?" The most basic starting point in both philosophy and standup
>> > > > > comedy is "X—what's up with that?" Fourth, as they think about
>> > > > > familiar experiences, both philosophers and comics step back
>> > > > > emotionally from them. Henri Bergson (1911 [1900]) spoke of the
>> > > > > "momentary anaesthesia of the heart" in laughter. Emotional
>> > > > > disengagement long ago became a meaning of
>> > > > > "philosophical"—"rational,
>> > > > > sensibly composed, calm, as in a difficult situation." Fifth,
>> > > > > philosophers and standup comics think critically. They ask whether
>> > > > > familiar ideas make sense, and they refuse to defer to authority
>> > > > > and
>> > > > > tradition. It was for his critical thinking that Socrates was
>> > > > > executed. So were cabaret comics in Germany who mocked the Third
>> > > > > Reich. Sixth, in thinking critically, philosophers and standup
>> > > > > comics
>> > > > > pay careful attention to language. Attacking sloppy and illogical
>> > > > > uses
>> > > > > of words is standard in both, and so is finding exactly the right
>> > > > > words to express an idea. Seventh, the pleasure of standup comedy
>> > > > > is
>> > > > > often like the pleasure of doing philosophy. In both we relish new
>> > > > > ways of looking at things and delight in surprising thoughts.
>> > > > > William
>> > > > > James (1979 [1911], 11) said that philosophy "sees the familiar as
>> > > > > if
>> > > > > it were strange, and the strange as if it were familiar." The same
>> > > > > is
>> > > > > true of standup comedy. Simon Critchley has written that both ask
>> > > > > us
>> > > > > to "look at things as if you had just landed from another
>> > > > > planet" (2002, 1).
>> >
>> > > > > One recent philosopher attuned to the affinity between comedy and
>> > > > > philosophy was Bertrand Russell. "The point of philosophy," he
>> > > > > said,
>> > > > > "is to start with something so simple as not to seem worth
>> > > > > stating,
>> > > > > and to end with something so paradoxical that no one will believe
>> > > > > it" (1918, 53). In the middle of an argument, he once observed,
>> > > > > "This
>> > > > > seems plainly absurd: but whoever wishes to become a philosopher
>> > > > > must
>> > > > > learn not to be frightened by absurdities" (2008 [1912], 17).
>> >
>> > > > > I laughed a lot more reading Lyotard's 'Libidinal Economy' -
>> > > > > rather as
>> > > > > I might chuckle along with a Tom Sharpe farce. I'm not sure what
>> > > > > makes me laugh until it does. The ideologies through which people
>> > > > > live lives often does, but this is without joy.
>> >
>> > > > > On 24 Nov, 19:40, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > > > > I have seen it used recently as an ineffective cover for a badly
>> > > > > > positioned provocative argument. "I was only kidding, she
>> > > > > > doesn't
>> > > > > > understand my humor..." not hard to see through and not
>> > > > > > inspiring
>> > > > > > confidence. The dance of the fool.
>> >
>> > > > > > Kind humor, irony, absurd, surprise are more my style than
>> > > > > > sarcasm
>> > > or
>> > > > > > more aggressive humor that derides or shames.
>> >
>> > > > > > There is no denying the biochemical rush that comes with
>> > > > > > laughing
>> > > > > > oneself to tears, and the joy that comes with sharing such a
>> > > > > > moment.
>> >
>> > > > > > On Nov 24, 1:51 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > > > > > While there is only speculation about how humor developed in
>> > > > > > > early
>> > > > > > > humans, we know that by the 6th century BCE the Greeks had
>> > > > > > > institutionalized it in the ritual known as comedy, and that
>> > > > > > > it
>> > > was
>> > > > > > > performed with a contrasting dramatic form known as tragedy.
>> > > > > > > Both
>> > > were
>> > > > > > > based on the violation of mental patterns and expectations,
>> > > > > > > and in
>> > > > > > > both the world is a tangle of conflicting systems where humans
>> > > live in
>> > > > > > > the shadow of failure, folly, and death. Like tragedy, comedy
>> > > > > > > represents life as full of tension, danger, and struggle, with
>> > > success
>> > > > > > > or failure often depending on chance factors. Where they
>> > > > > > > differ is
>> > > in
>> > > > > > > the responses of the lead characters to life's incongruities.
>> > > > > > > Identifying with these characters, audiences at comedies and
>> > > tragedies
>> > > > > > > have contrasting responses to events in the dramas. And
>> > > > > > > because
>> > > these
>> > > > > > > responses carry over to similar situations in life, comedy and
>> > > tragedy
>> > > > > > > embody contrasting responses to the incongruities in life.
>> >
>> > > > > > > Tragedy valorizes serious, emotional engagement with life's
>> > > problems,
>> > > > > > > even struggle to the death. Along with epic, it is part of the
>> > > Western
>> > > > > > > heroic tradition that extols ideals, the willingness to fight
>> > > > > > > for
>> > > > > > > them, and honor. The tragic ethos is linked to patriarchy and
>> > > > > > > militarism—many of its heroes are kings and conquerors—and it
>> > > > > > > valorizes what Conrad Hyers (1996) calls Warrior Virtues—blind
>> > > > > > > obedience, the willingness to kill or die on command,
>> > > unquestioning
>> > > > > > > loyalty, single-mindedness, resoluteness of purpose, and
>> > > > > > > pride.
>> >
>> > > > > > > Comedy, by contrast, embodies an anti-heroic, pragmatic
>> > > > > > > attitude
>> > > > > > > toward life's incongruities. From Aristophanes' Lysistrata to
>> > > Charlie
>> > > > > > > Chaplin's The Great Dictator to Michael Moore's Fahrenheit
>> > > > > > > 9/11,
>> > > > > > > comedy has mocked the irrationality of militarism and blind
>> > > respect
>> > > > > > > for authority. Its own methods of handling
>> >
>> > ...
>> >
>> > read more »
>
> --
>
>
>
--
(
)
|_D Allan
Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
I am a Natural Airgunner -
Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly.
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