Wednesday, November 28, 2012

Mind's Eye Re: Humour

Perhap it is just TV playing to the lowest common demominator?
 

On Tuesday, 27 November 2012 02:45:36 UTC, archytas wrote:
Not seen Chris or Charles Don.  Hicks, a few derivative references
apart, could have been a Brit.  Our cultures are probably less far
apart than such matters as the absence of footpaths in the States.
Our serious comedy is mostly political satire from Yes Minister to The
Thick of It.  What I was wondering was whether any one else feels more
general film and literature has gone Tragic and plots and characters
less and less comedic in the old Greek sense.  Our old sitcoms like
Dads' Army, Steptoe and Son and plenty of others had a great element
of 'daft people like me and you caught in a plight and muddling
through'.  Bilko and Top Cat had this too.  A fairly recent French
fil,m Mario et Jeanette had this.

On 27 Nov, 00:40, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 6:15 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > At other levels I think we should be ridiculing such matters as the
> > absence of disabled people in politically correct newsrooms and such.
>
> What about Chris Mathews? budda bump bump
>
> Charles Krauthammer, in contrast, is a paraplegic but ok from the neck up.
> Most people don't even know about his disability because it's not relavent.
> We like his commentary.
>
> dj
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Saturday, November 24, 2012 6:15:40 PM UTC-6, archytas wrote:
>
> > The Brits do more nob gags and used to pack theatres to see a guy play
> > the trombone with ass-gas- needless to say a Frenchman.  Audience
> > milking is central to some humour - this tends to put me off, but some
> > are so good at it I don't notice until afterwards.  US comedy films
> > are usually dross, but your stand-ups usually great.  My recent
> > favourite is 'The Pope's Toilet' from Uruguay.  The hero rides a bike
> > everywhere and his wife describes him as lacking pump for a bicycle
> > man.  Why do the French smell?  So even the blind can hate them.  Why
> > would you find an Irishman in the Alps?  Where else would you find a
> > downhill lake.  Irish jokes are Belgian, Polish and Swedish etc.
>
> > At other levels I think we should be ridiculing such matters as the
> > absence of disabled people in politically correct newsrooms and such.
>
> > On 24 Nov, 21:46, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Over here, social workers have taken kids off foster parents because
> > > of their membership of UKIP - a party that shares the desire of 65% of
> > > the population to leave the EU and restrict immigration.  You have to
> > > laugh - or cry!
>
> > > On 24 Nov, 21:38, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Morecambe and Wise with Mum and Dad at Xmas perhaps.  Laurel and
> > > > Hardy.  Many other popular comedians are more likely to make me weep.
> > > > I never liked Chaplin (actually thinking Hitler more of a comedian
> > > > than 'The Dictator') and we had Cannon and Ball here who hit a nerve I
> > > > don't like.    I can laugh with some of the ostensibly more vicious
> > > > types like Bill Hicks and Frankie Boyle.  Police and army culture
> > > > reveres tough, sadistic humour with self-depreciation thrown in.
>
> > > > I'm against speech crime but it's also clear not everything goes.  I
> > > > don't agree with the Greek split - it's from Stanford EP - suspecting
> > > > humour is closely linked with breakthrough thinking (though not the
> > > > same) and unseating the biological trance of hierarchy (The Name of
> > > > the Rose).
>
> > > > The SEP article concludes:
>
> > > > Along with the idealism of tragedy goes elitism. The people who matter
> > > > in tragedy are kings, queens, and generals. In comedy there are more
> > > > characters and more kinds of characters, women are more prominent, and
> > > > many protagonists come from lower classes. Everybody counts for one.
> > > > That shows in the language of comedy, which, unlike the elevated
> > > > language of tragedy, is common speech. The basic unit in tragedy is
> > > > the individual, in comedy it is the family, group of friends, or bunch
> > > > of co-workers.
>
> > > > While tragic heroes are emotionally engaged with their problems, comic
> > > > protagonists show emotional disengagement. They think, rather than
> > > > feel, their way through difficulties. By presenting such characters as
> > > > role models, comedy has implicitly valorized the benefits of humor
> > > > that are now being empirically verified, such as that it is
> > > > psychologically and physically healthy, it fosters mental flexibility,
> > > > and it serves as a social lubricant. With a few exceptions like
> > > > Aquinas, philosophers have ignored these benefits.
>
> > > > If philosophers wanted to undo the traditional prejudices against
> > > > humor, they might consider the affinities between one contemporary
> > > > genre of comedy—standup comedy—and philosophy itself. There are at
> > > > least seven. First, standup comedy and philosophy are conversational:
> > > > like the dialogue format that started with Plato, standup routines are
> > > > interactive. Second, both reflect on familiar experiences, especially
> > > > puzzling ones. We wake from a vivid dream, for example, not sure what
> > > > has happened and what is happening. Third, like philosophers, standup
> > > > comics often approach puzzling experiences with questions. "If I
> > > > thought that dream was real, how do I know that I'm not dreaming right
> > > > now?" The most basic starting point in both philosophy and standup
> > > > comedy is "X—what's up with that?" Fourth, as they think about
> > > > familiar experiences, both philosophers and comics step back
> > > > emotionally from them. Henri Bergson (1911 [1900]) spoke of the
> > > > "momentary anaesthesia of the heart" in laughter. Emotional
> > > > disengagement long ago became a meaning of "philosophical"—"rational,
> > > > sensibly composed, calm, as in a difficult situation." Fifth,
> > > > philosophers and standup comics think critically. They ask whether
> > > > familiar ideas make sense, and they refuse to defer to authority and
> > > > tradition. It was for his critical thinking that Socrates was
> > > > executed. So were cabaret comics in Germany who mocked the Third
> > > > Reich. Sixth, in thinking critically, philosophers and standup comics
> > > > pay careful attention to language. Attacking sloppy and illogical uses
> > > > of words is standard in both, and so is finding exactly the right
> > > > words to express an idea. Seventh, the pleasure of standup comedy is
> > > > often like the pleasure of doing philosophy. In both we relish new
> > > > ways of looking at things and delight in surprising thoughts. William
> > > > James (1979 [1911], 11) said that philosophy "sees the familiar as if
> > > > it were strange, and the strange as if it were familiar." The same is
> > > > true of standup comedy. Simon Critchley has written that both ask us
> > > > to "look at things as if you had just landed from another
> > > > planet" (2002, 1).
>
> > > > One recent philosopher attuned to the affinity between comedy and
> > > > philosophy was Bertrand Russell. "The point of philosophy," he said,
> > > > "is to start with something so simple as not to seem worth stating,
> > > > and to end with something so paradoxical that no one will believe
> > > > it" (1918, 53). In the middle of an argument, he once observed, "This
> > > > seems plainly absurd: but whoever wishes to become a philosopher must
> > > > learn not to be frightened by absurdities" (2008 [1912], 17).
>
> > > > I laughed a lot more reading Lyotard's 'Libidinal Economy' - rather as
> > > > I might chuckle along with a Tom Sharpe farce.  I'm not sure what
> > > > makes me laugh until it does.  The ideologies through which people
> > > > live lives often does, but this is without joy.
>
> > > > On 24 Nov, 19:40, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > I have seen it used recently as an ineffective cover for a badly
> > > > > positioned provocative argument. "I was only kidding, she doesn't
> > > > > understand my humor..." not hard to see through and not inspiring
> > > > > confidence.  The dance of the fool.
>
> > > > > Kind humor, irony, absurd, surprise are more my style than sarcasm
> > or
> > > > > more aggressive humor that derides or shames.
>
> > > > > There is no denying the biochemical rush that comes with laughing
> > > > > oneself to tears, and the joy that comes with sharing such a moment.
>
> > > > > On Nov 24, 1:51 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > While there is only speculation about how humor developed in early
> > > > > > humans, we know that by the 6th century BCE the Greeks had
> > > > > > institutionalized it in the ritual known as comedy, and that it
> > was
> > > > > > performed with a contrasting dramatic form known as tragedy. Both
> > were
> > > > > > based on the violation of mental patterns and expectations, and in
> > > > > > both the world is a tangle of conflicting systems where humans
> > live in
> > > > > > the shadow of failure, folly, and death. Like tragedy, comedy
> > > > > > represents life as full of tension, danger, and struggle, with
> > success
> > > > > > or failure often depending on chance factors. Where they differ is
> > in
> > > > > > the responses of the lead characters to life's incongruities.
> > > > > > Identifying with these characters, audiences at comedies and
> > tragedies
> > > > > > have contrasting responses to events in the dramas. And because
> > these
> > > > > > responses carry over to similar situations in life, comedy and
> > tragedy
> > > > > > embody contrasting responses to the incongruities in life.
>
> > > > > > Tragedy valorizes serious, emotional engagement with life's
> > problems,
> > > > > > even struggle to the death. Along with epic, it is part of the
> > Western
> > > > > > heroic tradition that extols ideals, the willingness to fight for
> > > > > > them, and honor. The tragic ethos is linked to patriarchy and
> > > > > > militarism—many of its heroes are kings and conquerors—and it
> > > > > > valorizes what Conrad Hyers (1996) calls Warrior Virtues—blind
> > > > > > obedience, the willingness to kill or die on command,
> > unquestioning
> > > > > > loyalty, single-mindedness, resoluteness of purpose, and pride.
>
> > > > > > Comedy, by contrast, embodies an anti-heroic, pragmatic attitude
> > > > > > toward life's incongruities. From Aristophanes' Lysistrata to
> > Charlie
> > > > > > Chaplin's The Great Dictator to Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11,
> > > > > > comedy has mocked the irrationality of militarism and blind
> > respect
> > > > > > for authority. Its own methods of handling
>
> ...
>
> read more »

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