Re: Mind's Eye turning the world Greek

Hey Vam I'm not personally rich. I live in a rich country and do still pay some taxes although not much. I've been finding the loop holes. Don't hate the playah; hate the game. Do you see Romney as "macho?" I think he's pretty wimpy. He better toughen up or the mainstream media will slaughter him. I still think Obama will win the deck is stacked but Romney has an excellent opportunity to lay things out in the public eye that most people don't know. He'll have his bully pulpit I hope he doesn't waste it being "nice". 

You knew I was employed 2 months ago. The fact that I am very happy to STILL BE employed should be news to you. Things are getting rough all over. (cue tiny violins playing "My Heart Bleeds For You") That said, should I find myself out of a job I'm prepared. Well, I think I am. QE3 is eating up my savings as I write. Call me cautiously nervous. 

Take care, 

dj

On Saturday, September 15, 2012 12:43:58 PM UTC-5, Vam wrote:

Don, I see no scope of arguing you out of your regressive attitudes. That's how plain I will get. So, instead ...

01 The more macho the Republicans project themselves as, the more effeminate they actually are.

02 When you are putting the hungry millions and yourself on the balance, you will win. There is no argument there. It's the norm at its basest. Cool there !

03 That you are employed and get paid, I knew. But that you are rich, and actually consider yourself as being one amongst them, makes me snicker. And that's one thing I never do !

We attended different schools, Don. God bless ...  

On Saturday, September 15, 2012 10:56:11 PM UTC+5:30, Don Johnson wrote:

Hello Vam. 

On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 4:07:21 PM UTC-5, Vam wrote:

The truth is we don't have economic practices to suit the 21st Century realities :

01 We need a global resource management order that puts food and health starved millions, environment, sustainability and renewable energy at its core ... not profit, not electoral populism, and certainly not this oligarchical status quo.

Soooo basically the UN without the corruption and cupidity. Got it. Those darn humans(chuckle) How do we pay for it? Oh yeah, rich people. At least they're good for something, eh? As an American I can't forget that once we've saved a people from themselves; put food in their bellies and clothes on their bodies and roofs over their heads and built them bridges and schools and sanitation systems we still have to deal with the burning, soul eating hatred most of them have for us. Anybody with a solution for this that isn't do-gooder fantasy?  We need oil now and will still need oil after 50 more heavily subsidized "renewable energy" companies go belly up. The truth hurts.   

02 Much of this eddy economics swirling amongst the rich is not just a decadent pastime  but a waste when tested on societal needs ... 

the concept of competitive economics that worked in resource abundant era is out of date by at least 5 decades, since data on resource crunch has been suppressed ... 

the idea of markets to be conquered and captured is out of sync by a quarter of century, since serving the needs of people has gone altogether off the radar ...

Not so. Neil is correct many jobs have disappeared this doesn't mean new ones can't be created to serve new wants and needs. Read an article the other day predicting the new Apple IPhone 5 will improve GDP by .5%. That's one freakin' product. If China didn't make a fortune in knock-offs it might even be more when all is said and done. I don't see getting rid of the rich as the answer. Don't think it's possible anyway as Neil mentioned the faces would just change. However, I do agree our financial system is in shambles and shamelessly favors those already in power. The rules must be changed. Unfortunately, the only time the rules change is when some lobbyist or another convinces some politicians to cut his industry some breaks at the expense of other companies and/or citizens. That's the way it works and nothing I can see is better. Just the seesaw rules and regulations change we get with power switches. We here in the US have steadily been becoming more socialist for the last 50 years or so and I believe, for the sake of the world, it is past time we saw back towards capitalism and freer markets. We can still feed the hungry and help them pay the rent but maybe we don't need to buy them all IPhones and cars and big screen tvs and computers and lotto tickets and tattoos. 

It's going to get ugly before it gets better. Those riots in Egypt and Libya? We'll see some of that here. It's coming. 

dj

 

Neil, the facts you narrate fills in the gaps precisely, and eloquently, in my own felt notions ! Thank you.

On Wednesday, September 12, 2012 1:12:08 AM UTC+5:30, archytas wrote:

Rentiers are those who benefit from control over assets that the
economy needs to function, and who, therefore, grow disproportionately
rich as the economy develops. These proceeds are rents – revenues from
ownership "without working, risking, or economizing", as John Stuart
Mill (1848) wrote of the landlords of his day, explaining that "they
grow richer, as it were in their sleep". Classical economics from Adam
Smith onwards analysed rents, its effects, and policies towards rents,
but the very concept is lost on today's economics.Just as landlords
were the archetypal rentiers of their agricultural societies, so
investors, financiers and bankers are in the largest rentier sector of
today's financialized economies: finance controls the economy's engine
of growth, which is credit in all its forms. Economies obviously need
banking services, insurance services, and real estate development and
so, of course, not all of finance is "without working, risking, or
economizing". The problem today remains what it was in the 13th
century: how to isolate what is socially necessary for 'retail'
banking – processing payments by checks and credit cards, deciding how
to relend savings and new credit under normal (non-speculative)
conditions – from extortionate charges such as 29% interest on credit
cards, penalty fees and other charges in excess of what is socially
necessary cost-value.


Demographically, the effect of debt deflation is emigration and other
negative effects. For example, after Latvian property prices soared as
Swedish bank branches fueled the real estate bubble, living standards
plunged. Families had to take on a lifetime of debt in order to gain
the housing that was bequeathed to the country debt-free when the
Soviet Union broke up in 1991. When Latvia's government imposed
neoliberal austerity policies in 2009-10, wage levels plunged by 30
percent in the public sector, and private-sector wages followed the
decline (Sommers et al 2010). Emigration and capital flight
accelerated: the Economist (2010) reported that an estimated 30,000
Latvians were leaving every year, on a 2.2m population. In debt-
strapped Iceland, the census reported in 2011 that 8% of the
population had emigrated (mainly to Norway).
Read more at http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2012/09/getting-economics-to-acknowledge-rentier-finance.html#5QSCE07s7Tq5GVgz.99

Greece is just one example of what may befall us all.  I'm past caring
on a personal basis and even scared that most of what I would see as a
solution was actioned by the Nazis.  We need something to replace the
rich, but this can't just be a change of faces.









On 11 Sep, 08:57, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> yeah we need a "universal party of amnesia" we could make it world wide and
> run on everything the other parties forgot they tried..
> Allan
>
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> On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 10:56 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > The scary thing about most of the solutions in our politics is they
> > have been tried before and failed.  Most of us have forgotten or never
> > knew.
>
> > On 10 Sep, 13:05, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Some of the issues facing us can be found here -
> >http://www.zerohedge.com/news/americas-middle-class-divide
>
> > > Greece and probably Italy would have become communist after WW2 - but
> > > for Anglo-Saxon interference.  International money has escaped even
> > > war reparation and the whole business of working for a living is
> > > undercut by vast riches.  The real issue is about retaining motivation
> > > to get the work we need done done.  I find the financial system
> > > utterly demotivating.  The answer isn't communism.
>
> > > It doesn't seem to matter much whether money is focused on a few rich
> > > or centralised government.  The problem is the corruption of the
> > > oligarchs or politicians.  Yet try getting people to organise to do
> > > necessary work and you soon realise this is a process of coercion.
> > > The idea has to be to spread wealth widely - yet even this leaves us
> > > with problems of consumption and planet burning as we all become
> > > middle-class idiots or irresponsible carbon-footprint breeders.
>
> > > On 9 Sep, 22:46, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > I rather like some Marx and Lenin Don.  Our kids are being cloned in
> > > > other ways.  I broadly agree though - but jobs as we knew them are
> > > > gone.  The current con is about 'working smart' and further and higher
> > > > education providing training for that.  In round 1924 the Germans
> > > > sacked 25% of State workers and underwent massive bankruptcies.  The
> > > > US lost 10 million jobs in the depression - most ending up in a vast
> > > > military mobilisation.  I suspect you and I see freedom as linked to
> > > > productive work, but this needs reworking.
>
> > > > I'd cut the school-leaving age to 14 and introduce a new form of
> > > > national-international service.  I'd scrap universities as we have
> > > > them now and introduce 7 years free post-14 education for anyone
> > > > wanting it.  I'd expect most of this to be non-classroom and project-
> > > > related.  It would be good to give up to notions of people just being
> > > > able to earn money, but I think this has always been organised.  Every
> > > > scheme we come up with brings up control problems, either by
> > > > government or the rich.
>
> > > > On 9 Sep, 18:31, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > I can see the dissipation of the crux, as I read in the thread...
>
> > > > > Evidence of what is subversive includes facts like the US spending
> > 54% of tax revenue on war program and Rupert Murdoch's 175 media units
> > voicing in unison that Iraq war was right.
>
> > > > > Clearly, I am speaking of the system, order and economics. We are
> > back to franchise barriers open only to millionaire 'gentry.'
>
> > --
>
> --
>  (
>   )
> |_D Allan
>
> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
> I am a Natural Airgunner -
>
>  Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly.

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