Re: Mind's Eye Can there be any rational discussion of religion?

Make sex a financial transaction. If the relationship fails, one can
invest in a healthy portfolio.

On Aug 9, 4:57 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I tend to think more on the non-modern moralities stuck in more
> dogmatic religion.  It seems immoral to me not to teach our kids how
> to enjoy sex without unwanted pregnancies, proper hygiene and care
> about relevant diseases and rely instead on moral approbation and
> myths like abstinence.  I'd say most of the talk on these matters
> verges on a kind of cruel lunacy.  I'd say the Faceflop IPO was
> religious and that the skimming and opacity of alleged free markets
> has the same kind of halo.
>
> On Aug 9, 9:47 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Thumping is the defensive wall they use to protect their house of cards..
> > I have many questions even of my own beliefs..   Now personally I think
> > Jesus was one of the greatest spiritual teachers that ever lived..
>
> > I do know that there were many great story tellers in that era,,  and  a
> > story teller will make changes to make a story more believable.  I also
> > know that during the period in which Jesus lived the romans had a festival
> > of crucifying jewish preachers, I guess because they saw them as a threat
> > of some kind,,  it was a regular event,,  I do know that on what would be
> > and provable astrological event the eclipse of the sun occurred
> > over Jerusalem what would be the very beginning CE.. one of my problems is
> > was he crucified on that exact date or did it make for a better story,, and
> > the similarities to ancient pre-christian cult?
> > many questions few answers
> > Allan
> > ..
>
> > On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 10:08 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > In a way Allan, the last bit of what you say is hardly for
> > > religionists - they are determined not to let anyone pull at their
> > > house of cards.
>
> > > On Aug 9, 7:00 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Well  I love discussing religion,,  the problem is that when you say
> > > > something in your opinion that a major religion takes offense to..    I
> > > > think this offense is mostly from fundamentalism..  I think the problem
> > > > there is that  most religions are of the dead variety.
>
> > > > Beliefs have to be of the concept that they are growing and expanding
> > > with
> > > > new ideas  a building on the foundations laid earlier  and where there
> > > are
> > > > errors and fault found these need to be listed as a error.   Often times
> > > > religious organizations and believers close up like clams and plug their
> > > > ears when ever there is something they find contradicts what their pet
> > > > documents have to say.  this the thumpers are born .
>
> > > > My beliefs pick away  I am waiting.
> > > > Allan
>
> > > > On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 4:06 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > A Muslim sect has been found keeping most of its members living
> > > > > underground in squalor (Russia).  Charges will include child cruelty.
> > > > > I'm always depressed when people want to discuss beliefs in their blue
> > > > > and white rabbit-gods and particularly when  official religions demand
> > > > > respect.  I think rationality disappears in religious discussion and
> > > > > this essentially hides pretty brutal power-plays that are about
> > > > > genetic-hierarchical manipulation.  This doesn't leave me dismissive
> > > > > of all religion - we should be looking for more sub-conscious
> > > > > recognition of peace and the wiles of self-deception.
>
> > > > > Veblen argued (1910 ish) that the leisure class exert a control fraud
> > > > > on the rest of us and that economics is essentially religious.
> > > > > Handing political power to religious freaks as in practical Islam is
> > > > > as mad as the days of the utterly disgusting Crusades, but one can see
> > > > > the appeal of a way of life free of clown capitalism at the same
> > > > > time.  Religion was once much more closely related to freeing people
> > > > > from he master class - many of its early words are about freedom from
> > > > > debt, debt peonage and coming home from indenture in jubilee.  The
> > > > > real tale of kicking over the tables of temple money-lenders has some
> > > > > parallels with current attacks on the USD as the reserve currency.
>
> > > > > I hope it is clear I have plenty of time for, say, RP and Molly and I
> > > > > miss Orn a lot.  Keeping ourselves honest on religion is difficult -
> > > > > rigsy often says, effectively, debate is circular and more or less
> > > > > meaningless, perhaps because we have cut our mutual understanding in
> > > > > advance.  My own interest is why so much performed rationality is
> > > > > really religious - economics is the classic.  The Governor of the Bank
> > > > > of England is now saying no one knows what will happen in Europe and
> > > > > hence no one knows what will happen in Blighty.  Instead of resigning
> > > > > as a hapless incompetent he is urging the Olympic spirit on the
> > > > > nation.  He looks like a vicar in classic C of E mode.
>
> > > > > There are various tricks in religious argumentation like 'seeing the
> > > > > light' as a ersult of introspection not amenable to demonstration.
> > > > > Yet we need vision of some other way to live.  I wonder what religion
> > > > > might be without such standard manipulations?
>
> > > > > --
>
> > > > --
> > > >  (
> > > >   )
> > > > |_D Allan
>
> > > > Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
> > > --
>
> > --
> >  (
> >   )
> > |_D Allan
>
> > Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

--