Re: Mind's Eye Can there be any rational discussion of religion?

Well  I love discussing religion,,  the problem is that when you say something in your opinion that a major religion takes offense to..    I think this offense is mostly from fundamentalism..  I think the problem there is that  most religions are of the dead variety.

Beliefs have to be of the concept that they are growing and expanding with new ideas  a building on the foundations laid earlier  and where there are errors and fault found these need to be listed as a error.   Often times religious organizations and believers close up like clams and plug their ears when ever there is something they find contradicts what their pet documents have to say.  this the thumpers are born .

My beliefs pick away  I am waiting.

Allan

On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 4:06 PM, archytas <nwterry@gmail.com> wrote:

A Muslim sect has been found keeping most of its members living
underground in squalor (Russia).  Charges will include child cruelty.
I'm always depressed when people want to discuss beliefs in their blue
and white rabbit-gods and particularly when  official religions demand
respect.  I think rationality disappears in religious discussion and
this essentially hides pretty brutal power-plays that are about
genetic-hierarchical manipulation.  This doesn't leave me dismissive
of all religion - we should be looking for more sub-conscious
recognition of peace and the wiles of self-deception.

Veblen argued (1910 ish) that the leisure class exert a control fraud
on the rest of us and that economics is essentially religious.
Handing political power to religious freaks as in practical Islam is
as mad as the days of the utterly disgusting Crusades, but one can see
the appeal of a way of life free of clown capitalism at the same
time.  Religion was once much more closely related to freeing people
from he master class - many of its early words are about freedom from
debt, debt peonage and coming home from indenture in jubilee.  The
real tale of kicking over the tables of temple money-lenders has some
parallels with current attacks on the USD as the reserve currency.

I hope it is clear I have plenty of time for, say, RP and Molly and I
miss Orn a lot.  Keeping ourselves honest on religion is difficult -
rigsy often says, effectively, debate is circular and more or less
meaningless, perhaps because we have cut our mutual understanding in
advance.  My own interest is why so much performed rationality is
really religious - economics is the classic.  The Governor of the Bank
of England is now saying no one knows what will happen in Europe and
hence no one knows what will happen in Blighty.  Instead of resigning
as a hapless incompetent he is urging the Olympic spirit on the
nation.  He looks like a vicar in classic C of E mode.

There are various tricks in religious argumentation like 'seeing the
light' as a ersult of introspection not amenable to demonstration.
Yet we need vision of some other way to live.  I wonder what religion
might be without such standard manipulations?

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|_D Allan

Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.

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