Maybe, language creates the illusion of the reality- or distorts it.
We have evolved from cave paintings to symbols to language to
communicate. How has that been working out for humanity?
On Jun 25, 2:09 pm, James <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think you will appreciate this one Malcolm (among others), from an
> engineering standpoint nature has an amazing potential processing
> capacity. The bandwidth, symbol diversity, depth of recursion, expansion
> and contraction of emergent phenomena, stochastic boundary interference.
> Who am I to say what /is/, what /could be/ is beyond words if creatures
> as limited as we on an astronomical scale can see so much and reach out
> so far in such a short time. Toward what, I think, we cannot imagine
> it's significance (yet). The internet may evolve into a global central
> nervous system given time, we may even learn a thing or two from
> mathematics and what it means /that/ we do it. There is so much work to
> be done on this little anthill!!
>
> "Whereas an engineered control system has a reference value or
> setpoint adjusted by some external agency, the reference value for a
> biological control system cannot be set in this way. The setpoint must
> come from some internal process. If there is a way for behavior to
> affect it, any perception may be brought to the state momentarily
> specified by higher levels and then be maintained in that state against
> unpredictable disturbances. In a hierarchy of control systems, higher
> levels adjust the goals of lower levels as their means of approaching
> their own goals set by still-higher systems. This has important
> consequences for any proposed external control of an autonomous living
> control system (organism). At the highest level, reference values
> (goals) are set by heredity or adaptive processes." [1] wikipedia
>
> There is a site with resources and neat little intro/walkthrough athttp://www.pctweb.org/whatis/whatispct.html
>
> And another puzzle piece I find interesting is in complex systems:
>
> "Complex adaptive systems are special cases of complex systems. They are
> complex in that they are dynamic networks of interactions and
> relationships not aggregations of static entities. They are adaptive in
> that their individual and collective behaviour changes as a result of
> experience."
>
> "The term complex adaptive systems, or complexity science, is often used
> to describe the loosely organized academic field that has grown up
> around the study of such systems. Complexity science is not a single
> theory— it encompasses more than one theoretical framework and is highly
> interdisciplinary, seeking the answers to some fundamental questions
> about living, adaptable, changeable systems."
> ...
> "Examples of complex adaptive systems include the stock market, social
> insect and ant colonies, the biosphere and the ecosystem, the brain and
> the immune system, the cell and the developing embryo, manufacturing
> businesses and any human social group-based endeavour in a cultural and
> social system such as political parties or communities. There are close
> relationships between the field of CAS and artificial life. In both
> areas the principles of emergence and self-organization are very
> important." [3]
>
> But the point I find interesting is that stimulus-response behaviorism
> is an obsolete theory, however I acknowledge it can be very useful (such
> as boolean logic and symbols in industrial controls or numerous others
> involving abstraction, control, reliability, communication). Somewhere
> in here morality, ethics, societal development, nature, biology,
> chemistry, physics, and many more are implied.
>
> I think this applies to several of the recent topics here but I seem to
> be drawn into obscure, subjective or intense language, wonder what that
> means (anyone, feel free to enlighten).. It is very difficult to
> translate mental imagery into words, one seems to dissolve the other,
> either the picture or the words..
>
> [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perceptual_control_theory
> [2]http://www.pctweb.org/whatis/whatispct.html
> [3]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_adaptive_system
>
> On 6/25/2012 3:05 AM, malcymo wrote:
>
>
>
> > Thanks for the heartmath reterence. I had a brief look and it reminded
> > me of Yoga techniques which I found extremely useful as a screwed up
> > teenager.
> > On Monday, 25 June 2012 07:25:42 UTC+12, Molly wrote:
>
> > The heart also responds to all the things you mention. Our physical
> > organs and systems all respond to thoughts, feelings and awareness.
> > The heartmath institute has done quite a bit of research in this
> > regard. Our being (includes physical and all aspects) and experience
> > are in dynamic relationship. The become one in paradox.
>
> > On Jun 24, 11:22 am, RP Singh <123...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > It is the brain which is essential for experiencing all feelings ,
> > > thoughts , and states of awareness. Whatever is experienced has
> > > physical basis because without the physical organs, whether it be
> > > brain or sense organs , no experience is possible. God abides in
> > > matter and guides it by well established laws.
>
> > > On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 5:28 AM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > brain worship is prevalent, but science can't measure mind, or the
> > > > effect of thought on experience. Science can measure brain
> > function
> > > > as neuro-physical biochemisty, but not the complexity of
> > thought and
> > > > what it means to overall health. There is a state in sleep and
> > > > waking, where thought is not required, and indeed, awareness is
> > > > enhanced because of it.
>
> > > > On Jun 23, 2:35 pm, RP Singh <123...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> Man is a physical creature , the only spiritual aspect in him is
> > > >> awareness. It is the mind which thinks and mind is physical ,
> > cut a
> > > >> portion of the brain and thinking will stop , cut another
> > portion and
> > > >> awareness will be reduced to such a level as to be
> > insignificant ,
> > > >> and if you kill the brain even awareness which is the spiritual
> > > >> aspect in life will be extinguished. The fact is that Spirit
> > pervades
> > > >> throughout matter and an individuality might cease to be , yet
> > the One
> > > >> Spirit which is eternal and immortal remains unchanged.
>
> > > >> On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 10:27 PM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >> > Mind is a non physical organ, like ego or our metaphorical
> > heart (the
> > > >> > one what contains our emotions.) It's kind of like asking if
> > people
> > > >> > in different climates have different gall bladders because
> > of the
> > > >> > climate. At some point in our development, because the human
> > being is
> > > >> > adaptive and resilient, it is possible to find a harmonious
> > life with
> > > >> > all systems communicating and functioning together. We call
> > this
> > > >> > optimal health. And, at some point in our development, we may
> > > >> > discover that the harmony of our being is more a reflection
> > of our
> > > >> > internal environment than external and that our lives are
> > lived from
> > > >> > inside out. Of course, not everyone comes to this
> > realization, and
> > > >> > continue throughout their lives to look for external causes
> > for their
> > > >> > problems or discomfort. Whatever our philosophy, the quality
> > of our
> > > >> > lives can dramatically change for the better is we look
> > within for the
> > > >> > answers. Our mind thinks. We can live and breathe without
> > thinking.
> > > >> > Yet thinking is an important aspect of life, and one that
> > directly
> > > >> > effects the quality of our lives.
>
> > > >> > On Jun 23, 12:06 pm, "pol.science kid"
> > <r.freeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> >> I wanted to find out about this Chaz guy you were talking
> > about... so
> > > >> >> i was going through some really old posts.. but couldnt go
> > really far
> > > >> >> back.. only till 2007... when was ME created? who started
> > it? When you
> > > >> >> have a look..there are sooo many topics covered..its so
> > exiting..
> > > >> >> though i thought i saw some homophobic posts... but
> > seriously.. the
> > > >> >> range is so wide.. and there were so many members actively
> > > >> >> engaging ... my own old posts seemed dumb to me.. i guess
> > they still
> > > >> >> are.. But its remarkable the range of this forum..im gla i
> > joined it..
> > > >> >> one can learn a lot.... also ..do you guys think..different
> > climate
> > > >> >> zones affect the nature of people?..i mean more than the
> > fact that
> > > >> >> environment affects culture which affects to some degree human
> > > >> >> nature(or at least superficial responses.).. are people in
> > temperate
> > > >> >> areas different in their mind than people from tropical sultry
> > > >> >> areas...
>
> > > >> >> On Jun 22, 5:02 pm, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> >> > I read Barbara Ward's "The Rich Nations and the Poor
> > Nations" in the
> > > >> >> > early '60's when my curiousity led me beyond liberal
> > arts- also
> > > >> >> > Carson's "The Silent Spring", and several books on WWII.
> > 60 years
> > > >> >> > later- and where are we?
>
> > > >> >> > On Jun 19, 8:44 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> >> > > My point above, I think, is that what appears very
> > complex may have
> > > >> >> > > points of simplexity where we can see the moral action.
>
> > > >> >> > > On Jun 20, 2:41 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> >> > > > I was attracted in to have a go at new google groups
> > - utterly
> > > >> >> > > > unspeakable. These moral issues form the
>
> ...
>
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Tuesday, June 26, 2012
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