Re: Mind's Eye Towards a modern morality

Yes- they can send a Rainbow Warrior out to scoop it up for
fertilizer? It's tempting to kill the messenger, I suppose.//My point
about the computer/I Ching was that you are designating a machine to
make the choices so I wonder if your readings are valid. Computers
have screwed up international trade systems, I feel- human
intelligence cannot compete with their speed, for one thing, plus it
relieves brokers of moral decisions.//Fortune telling is a form of
wishful thinking=a form of insanity.

On May 27, 11:32 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We know the world is nuts. That is a give.  The green peace soup has to due
> with current flow. Floating pollution. Will always show up in the same
> spots ..  why don't they send ships out there to pick it up and recycle it.
> Oh I forgot that is not dramatic enough and it would not put enough good in
> their pocket.  And fortune telling tells you how and when to do it.
> Allan
> On May 27, 2012 3:23 PM, "rigsy03" <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Physically throwing the coins or bamboo sticks are part of the deal,
> > Allan, plus most will interpret the Judgment or Lines to fit their
> > preconceived intent- or throw till they get the answer they want- it's
> > human nature. :-)//Serious matters, all this bleached paper women use
> > in and out their bodies along with monkeying around with fertility and
> > every other thing thay can think of to consider themselves liberated.
>
> > On May 27, 6:20 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I have been reading the I Ching for material to think about during the
> > > day... well i looked up how to read the coins. (The program kind of does
> > it
> > > all automatically) What is amazing is how serious people are. It seems
> > they
> > > are even using it to determine if they are to use 2 or 3 ply maybe it is
> > 4
> > > ply that is needed after the latest dump.
>
> > > I do believe. It can show you things you need to think about regarding
> > any
> > > given subject.. along with correct moral responses... but make a decision
> > > as to what ply of toilet paper to use when wiping ones buns this time. No
> > > not only No but Hell No!!!
> > > Allan
> > > On May 27, 2012 9:46 AM, "Allan H" <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Times are changing,  the problem I see people who are just in the
> > morality
> > > > game for their own prophet. (sic)
> > > > Allan
> > > > On May 27, 2012 3:47 AM, "archytas" <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> Almost every little thing we do contributes to our carbon footprint,
> > > >> which increases greenhouse gases, which could in turn ultimately
> > > >> threaten hundreds of millions of lives in some remote time and place –
> > > >> the uncertainty only adding to the sublime awfulness of our
> > > >> responsibilities.  Contrary to Gardiner's concerns about moral
> > > >> corruption, climate change does not tempt us to be less moral than we
> > > >> might otherwise be; it invites us to be more moral than we could ever
> > > >> have imagined. Unlike the Dashwoods, we never knew how many relatives
> > > >> we had. Climate ethics is not morality applied but morality
> > > >> discovered, a new chapter in the moral education of mankind. It may
> > > >> tell us things we do not wish to know (about democracy, perhaps), but
> > > >> the future development of humanity may depend on what, if anything, it
> > > >> can teach us. (the last lines of a book review essay at LRB)
>
> > > >> I'm watching a South American farce called 'The Pope's Toilet' as I
> > > >> write.  It's a very moral film.  I don't doubt, as James points out
> > > >> that there are plenty of nuggets in our literature.  I doubt anyone in
> > > >> here would miss the point of the film.  They are doing Allan's last
> > > >> line above.
>
> > > >> If we forget moral philosophy, or at least suspend it, we might catch
> > > >> a glimpse of a morality that is largely about suppressing the poor and
> > > >> is based in non-modern attitudes.  If this is rather obvious, I doubt
> > > >> we realise the consequences - one being the limitation of our
> > > >> dialogue.  I wonder if we should take Wittgenstein seriously and look
> > > >> for what bewitches us as moral incompetents.  I suspect at core the
> > > >> problem concerns a technocracy that isn't scientific and operates by
> > > >> stopping us taking part in dialogue as competents.  I suspect this is
> > > >> a very old trick at the heart of education.
>
> > > >> On May 26, 8:31 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> > James so finding a sinkhole, now apparently that is very easy, after
> > > >> > watching Clare Prophet, the Rev. Moon, the new kid Cohen, the "Hour
> > of
> > > >> > Power" and many other religious ministries of great variety you can
> > see
> > > >> > they develop sink holes for money with the other end a lavish life
> > > >> style.
>
> > > >> > You are right we need to work for the betterment of mankind. The
> > > >> emphasis
> > > >> > needs to be on the poor but politics often gets I'm the way. Oddly
> > > >> enough
> > > >> > it can be circumvented peacefully.
> > > >> > Allan
> > > >> >  On May 25, 2012 11:38 PM, "James" <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> > > I think one aspect to consider is what types of thinking it would
> > > >> take to
> > > >> > > build up an infrastructure of citizenry with a more scientific
> > world
> > > >> view,
> > > >> > > and what that even means (hopefully more rational). This comes
> > with
> > > >> some
> > > >> > > challenges in assimilation and integration, what entry points are
> > > >> there, is
> > > >> > > there even interest (or is it a funding sinkhole).  And ethically,
> > > >> should
> > > >> > > we develop defenses to teach to our young for identifying and
> > > >> combating
> > > >> > > faulty reasoning and logic, what forms this might take. Maybe
> > through
> > > >> > > introducing a broad immersion of diverse concepts they will
> > > >> self-immunize
> > > >> > > and make the changes generationally (and is that process fast
> > enough
> > > >> for
> > > >> > > current/future challenges) if we just concentrate more on
> > exceptional
> > > >> > > qualitative development. It takes time and attention, people are
> > > >> overworked
> > > >> > > and full of anxiety.
>
> > > >> > > I was trying to wrap my head around a challenge between
> > technology and
> > > >> > > culture a little while back that involved high performance
> > materials
> > > >> like
> > > >> > > stainless steel, high pressure steam and platinum plated ceramics
> > and
> > > >> > > getting these things into the hands of your average third world
> > > >> farming
> > > >> > > community or poorer. Then it hit me, people don't need a source of
> > > >> gadgets,
> > > >> > > universities, a western way of life, industries and all that to
> > > >> benefit
> > > >> > > from modern knowledge, all that is necessary is an accessible
> > > >> vehicle, a
> > > >> > > friend, neighbor, or community. A few minutes later I had drafted
> > an
> > > >> > > integrated energy refinement system using natural resources like
> > clay,
> > > >> > > wood, soil, and rock to produce clean, high efficiency centralised
> > > >> heating
> > > >> > > with waste byproduct applications for sterile drinking water, safe
> > > >> human
> > > >> > > waste processing, personal/laundry cleaning chemicals and
> > medicinal
> > > >> > > applications. It's gathering dust somewhere around here in the
> > form
> > > >> of a
> > > >> > > scribble and a few notes.
>
> > > >> > > An accessible vehicle for the modern layman might be in how
> > scientific
> > > >> > > approaches can be used to refine, redirect redefine and optimize
> > our
> > > >> ends
> > > >> > > and means- and the Idols need to be outed as ill defined means
> > that
> > > >> set an
> > > >> > > unrealistically low bar for problem solving capacity. That is one
> > > >> emphasis
> > > >> > > for science at the inroad of ethos, what potential could we
> > released
> > > >> by
> > > >> > > directing a portion of energy toward actually solving problems and
> > > >> making
> > > >> > > solutions accessible? I wonder.
>
> > > >> > > Just a couple thoughts while trying to find that voice I put down
> > > >> > > somewhere. ;-)
>
> > > >> > > On 5/18/2012 12:13 AM, archytas wrote:
>
> > > >> > >> My stance towards most moralising is one of incredulity, yet I'm
> > a
> > > >> > >> moraliser and believe most of our problems lie in our lack of
> > > >> personal
> > > >> > >> and collective morality.  Economics as our political and business
> > > >> > >> class practice it is fundamentally immoral against a scientific
> > > >> world-
> > > >> > >> view,  My view of science is that it is full of values and the
> > notion
> > > >> > >> of it as value-free is a total and totalising dud.  Only lay
> > people
> > > >> > >> with no experience of doing science hold the "value-free" notion
> > of
> > > >> > >> science.
>
> > > >> > >> You can explore some of the moral issues arising in modern
> > science in
> > > >> > >> a lengthy book review at London Review of Books -
> > > >> > >>http://www.lrb.co.uk/v34/n10/**malcolm-bull/what-is-the-**
> > > >> > >> rational-response<
>
> >http://www.lrb.co.uk/v34/n10/malcolm-bull/what-is-the-rational-response>
> > > >> > >> .
> > > >> > >> The book's topic is climate change.
>
> > > >> > >> Coming up to 60 I regard the world as a abject failure against
> > the
> > > >> > >> promises I thought were being made in politics.  I'm a
> > world-weary
> > > >> old
> > > >> > >> fart now, tending to see the generations coming up as narcissist
> > > >> > >> wastrels who don't know what hard work is (etc.) though I think
> > the
> > > >> > >> blame is ours, not theirs.  I think the problem is our attitude
> > > >> > >> towards morality.  The tendency in history is to focus on
> > religion
> > > >> for
> > > >> > >> moral advice - this is utterly corrupt and we have forgotten that
> > > >> much
> > > >> > >> religious morality is actually a reaction against unfairness and
> > the
> > > >> > >> wicked control of our lives by the rich.  It is this latter
> > factor
> > > >> > >> that is repeating itself.
>
> > > >> > >> Much moralising concerns sex.  This all largely based in old
> > fables
> > > >> > >> for population control we can still find in primitive societies
> > such
> > > >> > >> as 'sperm control by fellatio' (Sambians) and non-penetrative
> > youth
> > > >> > >> sex (Kikuyu) etc. - and stuff like 'the silver ring thing'.  The
> > > >> > >> modern issue is population control and that we can achieve this
> > > >> > >> without sexual moralising - the moral
>
> ...
>
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