of my inner ear. Haven't felt like this since highschool, sustained
disorientation for several days that is. O.@ With self discipline I've
learned to control the nausea a bit but learned that driving with
someone talking loudly I cannot manage so well.. Thanks for asking. :)
On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 1:55 AM, Allan H <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:
> R U OK James?
> Allan
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 2:07 AM, James Lynch <ashkashal@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Oops, wrong thread! Ringing head, dizziness, and nausea are starting
>> to bug me, distracting too. Enough already. Be well everyone. :)
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 7:04 PM, James Lynch <ashkashal@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > If you don't think your students pick up on a slight hesitation or
>> > unconscious facial signal that a theory is bunk I think you are
>> > selling yourself short Neil. We are in a rapidly changing world, but
>> > some things haven't, conscience for example, you have the haves and
>> > have-nots. I think there is compelling evidence that we could live
>> > more fulfilling lives in the service to mankind, but when faced with
>> > the decision to sink or float/soar many are doing what they think is
>> > necessary even if it is rotting at the core of civilisation. We will
>> > craft our beliefs of right and wrong to fit the world we know, mostly
>> > I think. Identity and seeing oneself in the mirror helps but requires
>> > more than a single image as we need comparisons, it would help to say
>> > hey something else would work and people are doing it. A new labor
>> > class perhaps, philosophically motivated?
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 6:40 PM, archytas <nwterry@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> I think we are always stuck in an irrational situation, generally the
>> >> makings of others. Science makes some kind of clearing for
>> >> rationality and inventiveness. Heidegger opined on clearings as being
>> >> amongst the real things of the world rather than facing them in
>> >> thought 'where the backs were missing, but that didn't help him see
>> >> the Nazis for what they were. One can probably "curl up" by taking
>> >> action - as a cop in a pub brawl or whatever our countries ask of us
>> >> as soldiers, our societies of mothers and so on. I've found myself
>> >> coping in action fully aware of its ludicrous nature and wondering if
>> >> there is any freedom from it other than that given by adrenaline and
>> >> the steel put in in training to do the noxious.
>> >> There's a strange rationale that we somehow have to do what's right in
>> >> what is already an irrational mess and act as though rational against
>> >> some bigger picture that we are the good guys - a view unseated
>> >> everywhere by realistic history. The question for me is whether we
>> >> can do much with our knowledge in a world in which few will give up on
>> >> the comfort of knowing very little.
>> >>
>> >> On Feb 1, 11:50 am, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>> Also- I think if we really knew the consequences of our acts and
>> >>> choices we might just curl up into a ball and do nothing. One friend
>> >>> and I chuckle that we're all pretty much on an assembly line...
>> >>>
>> >>> On Feb 1, 5:27 am, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> > Just to clarify my thought- that luck and timing can be good, bad or
>> >>> > indifferent. Also rather than active thinking being a debate, it is
>> >>> > more like selection. Literature and social sciences deal with
>> >>> > layered
>> >>> > communication- for instance, withholding facts, feelings or motives.
>> >>> > It is often called discretion. :-) How do you mean "identity"?
>> >>>
>> >>> > On Jan 31, 11:09 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> > > The 'making sense of things later' seems true even in the split
>> >>> > > second
>> >>> > > in brain research. I regard all strategy as retrospectively
>> >>> > > devised!
>> >>> > > There's a book just out by Hill and Myatt (economists) on just how
>> >>> > > facile economics teaching is in universities - but this contains
>> >>> > > nothing on how this has happened. Some of this seems to me
>> >>> > > connected
>> >>> > > with a lack of movement beyond identity Molly.
>> >>>
>> >>> > > On Jan 31, 1:30 pm, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > Part of human nature is to identify with people, thoughts, ideas
>> >>> > > > around us. Being able to witness your identification, and
>> >>> > > > moving
>> >>> > > > beyond it is the real treasure.
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > On Jan 29, 9:10 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > Molly your question has my mind running around its dust bins.
>> >>> > > > > Most my
>> >>> > > > > thoughts are not original but more composites of other ideas.
>> >>> > > > > They are like
>> >>> > > > > hand me downs,, like the 3D image comes from watching how
>> >>> > > > > people search
>> >>> > > > > for treasure on sunken vessels, it is rags from a different
>> >>> > > > > ?idea?.
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > My world is a world of rags in the form of other ideas.
>> >>> > > > > Allan
>> >>> > > > > On Jan 29, 2012 8:21 PM, "Allan H" <allanh1...@gmail.com>
>> >>> > > > > wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > > Yeah it is kind of like an old dog sappen on his favorite
>> >>> > > > > > bone.
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > > it is trying to understand others, and what I have
>> >>> > > > > > experienced As I have
>> >>> > > > > > very few friends that like discussing God I talk to myself
>> >>> > > > > > a lot..which is
>> >>> > > > > > no problem as I am never really alone,.
>> >>> > > > > > Allan
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > > On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com>
>> >>> > > > > > wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> Not at all irrelevant. did you have more thoughts about
>> >>> > > > > >> this?
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> On Jan 28, 10:19 am, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> > > > > >> > Hi Mol&Rigs, listening to you two I've been asking myself
>> >>> > > > > >> > why none of
>> >>> > > > > >> > you mentions Jung and his description of the collective
>> >>> > > > > >> > unconscious. I
>> >>> > > > > >> > haven't read the Red Book yet, but maybe of of you has
>> >>> > > > > >> > and could tell
>> >>> > > > > >> > me why this is irrelevant to what you are discussing.
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > On Jan 27, 2:35 pm, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > The paramount paradox.
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > On Jan 27, 8:21 am, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > Yes- I've read a lot of Campbell and admire his
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > efforts. In fact, I
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > was going to put the Oriental Mythology of his Masks
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > of God series
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > aside to reread- Indian, Chinese and Japanese
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > chapters. I wish I
>> >>> > > > > >> could
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > keep certain studies on top of my thinking but maybe
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > I have read so
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > much there is a chute to forgetfulness or a pit of
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > scrambled
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > ideas! :-) Oh, dear!
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > However, back to your comment about looking
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > back/within. I consider
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > there is impossible split between the spiritual and
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > material and yet
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > that is our struggle to bridge- if possible.
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > On Jan 27, 6:32 am, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > Do myths disappear? Joseph Campbell mapped common
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > human myth
>> >>> > > > > >> around
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > the word and through time to discover a mechanism
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > something close
>> >>> > > > > >> to
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > common memory - the expression of the same
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > archetypes in real
>> >>> > > > > >> time,
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > isolated incidents around the globe and at the same
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > time. This
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > phenomena has occurred throughout human history.
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > This may tell us
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > that it is not the looking back that is important,
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > but as Vam
>> >>> > > > > >> says,
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > looking within.
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > On Jan 26, 5:54 am, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > What is original? I might argue that one is
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > simply explicating
>> >>> > > > > >> what
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > already exists.
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > Each generation assumes it has a distinct
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > character- or needs
>> >>> > > > > >> to prove
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > that it has.
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > Was thinking the reason myths disappear is
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > because they were
>> >>> > > > > >> oral and
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > native languages are usually suppressed by the
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > conquerors. One
>> >>> > > > > >> also
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > carries family myths- which interfere with deep
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > communication.
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > Yes- there are terrible inequities- all the more
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > scandalous
>> >>> > > > > >> because
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > there really is plenty to go around so the root
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > is greed and
>> >>> > > > > >> distain
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > for others. Governments only pretend to care for
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > all its
>> >>> > > > > >> citizens- it
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > picks and chooses.
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > We passed the Gilded Age- I would call this the
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > Tinsel Age.
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > On Jan 25, 9:45 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > I would say, Vam, that you often jump in the
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > water with an
>> >>> > > > > >> 'entourage'
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > of assumptive baggage. I probably dislike
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > citation more than
>> >>> > > > > >> you and
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > am not the first. Veblen would be a good start
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > (to use some
>> >>> > > > > >> rough
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > citation). These days, you can at least Google
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > the name.
>> >>> > > > > >> When I
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > started it meant a trip to the library. Anyone
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > who has the
>> >>> > > > > >> chance to
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > read a lot of what's available (this is still
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > remarkably few)
>> >>> > > > > >> should
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > discover most of what they thought their own
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > ideas have been
>> >>> > > > > >> done
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > before. The idea is no doubt to try to 'stand
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > on the
>> >>> > > > > >> shoulders of
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > giants' (itself a wisecrack by Newton on
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > Hooke's dwarfish
>> >>> > > > > >> stature).
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > The 'giants' always turn out flawed. Moses is
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > a war criminal
>> >>> > > > > >> in
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > Numbers 31, the Greeks, for all their argument,
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > never
>> >>> > > > > >> produced a
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > decent one against slavery (the
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > lunatic-religious John Brown
>> >>> > > > > >> being
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > better). Many, because they don't read enough,
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > attribute
>> >>> > > > > >> 'relativity'
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > to Einstein, but it has a longer and wider
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > history. The
>> >>> > > > > >> chattering
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > class reinvents the square wheel all over the
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > place.
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > What if the best of our system is fascist and
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > we have grown
>> >>> > > > > >> in such
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > culture, or a caste system? By what processes
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > do we get an
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > understanding for change from such? Western
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > propaganda would
>> >>> > > > > >> have us
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > believe pouring resources into the gullets of
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > the rich is
>> >>> > > > > >> sensible.
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > We all live in the gutter. Only some of us
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > lift our eyes to
>> >>> > > > > >> the
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > stars. If only I was smart enough to have been
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > first to
>> >>> > > > > >> that! (Oscar
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > Wilde) A common jibe by academics is that
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > common sense is
>> >>> > > > > >> that which
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > allows us to believe the world is flat - yet
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > flat-earth was an
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > academic construction - one can actually see
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > the curvature of
>> >>> > > > > >> the
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > Earth.
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > What we need is reliable collective memory.
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > Given our
>> >>> > > > > >> capacity to
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > pervert, citation is usually used in a highly
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > selective
>> >>> > > > > >> manner,
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > usually along with a core academic (religious
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > etc.) narrative
>> >>> > > > > >> of
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > exclusion of competing argument. Control of
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > what is reliable
>> >>> > > > > >> memory
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > is, of course, just what those in power want to
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > maintain -
>> >>> > > > > >> perhaps
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > through principles of Home and Vanity. I will
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > always prefer
>> >>> > > > > >> the
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > margins to this, remembering that to oppose
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > tyranny can
>> >>> > > > > >> pervert into
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > its support.
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > Deconstruction is only a beginning. I believe
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > its spirit
>> >>> > > > > >> concerns a
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > defeat of madness that includes rationalist
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > fantasy and animal
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > consensus (which I sense as grasping, selfish
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > individualism
>> >>> > > > > >> easy to
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > rule).
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > On Jan 25, 3:26 am, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > "Is this not an important part of the
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > dynamic
>> >>> > > > > >> multidimensional mind
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > Vam, can you find nothing of value with
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > meeting this view
>> >>> > > > > >> at least as
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > a challenge?"
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > James, starting with God is a bad idea.
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > Perhaps, ending up
>> >>> > > > > >> at it is
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > what needs to happen. Dawkins was in Jaipur
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > here and I
>> >>> > > > > >> found his view
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > a lot more balanced, less bigoted and
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > militant.
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > And Neil is right : it must deal with
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > morality. Where his
>> >>> > > > > >> discourse
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > runs dry is when he is quoting other people !
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > That is also
>> >>> > > > > >> my
>> >>>
>> >>> ...
>> >>>
>> >>> read more »
>
>
>
>
> --
> (
> )
> |_D Allan
>
> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
>
>
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