they lose it- from empires to individuals.
On Aug 1, 9:06 am, Allan Heretic <dehere...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I do not think so Rigsy the winners do not get to decide.. Each person is accountable for themselves. Personally I think the focus should be on God ( generic) if your focus is son the amity dollar and have become a slave to it then. You might have a problem, especially if viewed from the judaic tradition of false gods.
> Allan
>
> On 1 aug. 2011, at 15:08, rigsy03 <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > So the definitions of murder and slavery are arbitrary according to
> > practice and opinion? How do systems control behavior? Many- by making
> > one feel they do have choice, when indeed, they do not- or abuse terms
> > and definition. (A slave to the almighty dollar, etc.) And who decides
> > which nations have the moral edge in killing other humans? (The more
> > powerful. The winner.)
>
> > On Aug 1, 6:57 am, Lee Douglas <leerevdoug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Hey Rigsy,
>
> >> Well first off I'll have to say that abortion is not murder, and if we
> >> agree to use the common definition of murder that is the unlawfull
> >> killing of a human by another human, then if we count war as lawfull
> >> that takes care of that.
>
> >> A slave is exactly what the word says it is. I would add though that
> >> not including ones own children, that you enslave a person if you take
> >> from them all choice, that is they make no choices at all and live by
> >> your choices alone, this is the greatests of evils.
>
> >> On Jul 16, 12:29 pm, rigsy03 <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> I have a problem with your opinion about death vs. murder as it does
> >>> not cover abortions or warfare which have become antiseptic and
> >>> remote. But this leads to a bigger can of worms. Plus there are
> >>> multiple ways to stymie free choices.//What is your definition of a
> >>> "slave"?
>
> >>> On Jul 15, 3:49 am, Lee Douglas <leerevdoug...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> Umm that is an interesting take on it Tony.
>
> >>>> I'm a great beliver in the right of the individual to live life how
> >>>> they wish to. It comes as a by product of my other great belife yep
> >>>> the 'Golden Rule' so I must disagree with you about not allowing
> >>>> individuals to cuase unhappiness.
>
> >>>> If an individual wishes to life a live causeing unhappiness for all
> >>>> then that is their choice and they must then take the consequences of
> >>>> that choice, if that be prison or violence or whatever. I would not
> >>>> curtail this right of the individual but then again, I would personly
> >>>> make the choice to counter this individuals actions if turned against
> >>>> me or mine, and I don't doubt that others would make the same choice
> >>>> that I would.
>
> >>>> I also doubt the power of murder to change thinks for the worst for
> >>>> the majority of people, the rate of murder is overall really not that
> >>>> high, so I must also disagree with you on that score.
>
> >>>> For me the evilness of murder stems not from taking somebody elses
> >>>> life, after all we are all destined to die, so death in and of itself
> >>>> I can't see as an evil thing. Nope for me it is the taking away from
> >>>> somebody all future choices, this I think is a great evil.
>
> >>>> To make a man a slave does the same. Again all attributed to my
> >>>> belife in the golden rule.
>
> >>>> On Jul 14, 1:49 pm, Tony Orlow <t...@lightlink.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>> On Jul 12, 5:02 am, "leerevdoug...@googlemail.com" <l...@rdfmedia.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
>
> >>>>>> Hey Tony,
>
> >>>>>> Indeed and I would go further and say that good and evil are wholey
> >>>>>> subjective.
>
> >>>>>> Ben declares that murder is normaly counted as evil, but sometimes it
> >>>>>> serves the greater good. I would ask you all to consider why exaclty
> >>>>>> is it that the majority agree with this.
>
> >>>>>> In short why is murder evil?
>
> >>>>> Because we desire stability in society, and murder causes pain and
> >>>>> discord, making societal progress hard for us all. Is the murderer
> >>>>> evil? No, I think the murderer is sick, but society must hold the
> >>>>> individual accountable for their actions in some sense, or it will
> >>>>> collapse into chaos. One cannot allow individuals to cause unhappiness
> >>>>> for everyone else, or no one will be happy.
>
> >>>>> Peace,
>
> >>>>> Tony
>
> >>>>>> On Jul 11, 6:31 pm, Tony Orlow <t...@lightlink.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>> Hi Ben -
>
> >>>>>>> A good question, and not one that I haven't spent much time
> >>>>>>> considering. Here are my thoughts.
>
> >>>>>>> One many levels, good and evil are subjective. When a cheetah kills a
> >>>>>>> gazelle, that is good in the cheetah's eye and evil in the gazelle's.
> >>>>>>> Indeed, our sense of what is good or bad rests first in personal
> >>>>>>> pleasure and pain, and as we mature, is extended by association to
> >>>>>>> include that which helps or hurts an object of attachment. For the
> >>>>>>> rich, the current financial situation is good, and for the many poor
> >>>>>>> it is evil. One's personal judgment is generally dependent on their
> >>>>>>> perspective.
>
> >>>>>>> One the other hand, if we assume some greater good, then actions which
> >>>>>>> encourage it are good, and those that set it back or hurt it are bad
> >>>>>>> or even evil. For instance, for those that believe in evolution and
> >>>>>>> would rather be a trillion human cells able to think on our level
> >>>>>>> rather than a pool of algae, evolution may be viewed as a universally
> >>>>>>> good thing. Actions that encourage it are good and those that impede
> >>>>>>> it are bad. Since evolution happens on all levels, from stars to
> >>>>>>> physical organism to minds and memes, one may view this as a universal
> >>>>>>> good. Of course, this depends on whether one personally believes in
> >>>>>>> evolution, so again, even this objective good is subjectively
> >>>>>>> estimated by the individual.
>
> >>>>>>> Hope that was a valuable contribution. Have a nice day
>
> >>>>>>> Tony
>
> >>>>>>> On Jul 8, 11:16 pm, Ben <artistta...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>> I do not believe that we can define good and evil without entering
> >>>>>>>> into a philosophical conversation.
>
> >>>>>>>> Good and evil are not absolute rules nor can there be a universal good
> >>>>>>>> or a universal evil.
> >>>>>>>> The concept of what is good and what is evil must be taught to us as a
> >>>>>>>> child, because we are not born inherently good or evil.
>
> >>>>>>>> To murder is bad. However the statement does not speak of a universal
> >>>>>>>> good. Murder in so many cases has been used in good ways.
> >>>>>>>> Euthanization has been used to end a suffering patients life. Abortion
> >>>>>>>> has been used to prevent a child from being born when childbirth could
> >>>>>>>> end a mothers life. To murder is bad in many cases but not all. The
> >>>>>>>> extreme case of the word murder means to kill another human being
> >>>>>>>> under conditions specifically covered in law. We can not define murder
> >>>>>>>> without discussing the implications. There are many instances where
> >>>>>>>> murder must be re-defined as a good not a bad.
>
> >>>>>>>> A child is not born inherently good or evil. Human beings are unique
> >>>>>>>> in the power of our brain. We are able to quickly associate good and
> >>>>>>>> bad. These associations are learned from society, our elders and
> >>>>>>>> peers. A child that is born with no contact from these influences will
> >>>>>>>> associate good and evil with pain and suffering. A child with contact
> >>>>>>>> from these influences will be able to conceptualize good and evil and
> >>>>>>>> apply it to many different aspects of everyday life.
>
> >>>>>>>> Finally, no universal good or evil will ever be agreed upon. There is
> >>>>>>>> no absolute good or bad that we must all follow. One concept can
> >>>>>>>> impede on another and we must accept those societies that have a
> >>>>>>>> rational way of thinking. Each society must continue to evolve these
> >>>>>>>> rules and change the commandments that were made centuries ago to fit
> >>>>>>>> the present day reality of life. To murder is bad, however we live in
> >>>>>>>> a civilized county in which many cases of murder are legal because
> >>>>>>>> they are good. No one is born inherently good or evil and our society
> >>>>>>>> must continue to define every aspect of what could be good or bad in
> >>>>>>>> order to teach our children and they to develop their own, more
> >>>>>>>> complete understanding to be taught to their children.
>
> >>>>>>>> I challenge those of you who have read this to define an absolute good
> >>>>>>>> and evil.
>
> >>>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>>> Ben Kaylor- Hide quoted text -
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