find it near enough impossible to make a watertight case, morally or
practically, for either side of the debate.
If by "super race" you mean specific genetic endowments that offer
distinctive functional advantage, dont we have that now? Strip out the
mind-numbingly silly "ethnic" frame, you have great spectrums of great
talent everywhere.
Engineering a convergence of talent is fanciful, not dangerous; one
can be "too smart by half", you know :)
On Jul 20, 2:27 am, rigsy03 <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It probably is a topic for medical ethicists- the only one I've met
> was concerned with transplant issues. It is also a topic for
> philosophers.
>
> Didn't the Spartans try to "engineer" a super race?
>
> What about government interference?
>
> Let's consider what has happened to certain dogs, shall we?
>
> Lordy, Lordy- sometimes it is lovely to have been an old-fashioned
> girl!
>
> On Jul 19, 4:30 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Abortion is not anything much in history. We are now almost in the
> > territory of decisions on altering our species and creating something
> > very different. I'm of the view that humanity is more or less a waste
> > of time and I'd rather trust decisions to people than anything quite
> > as mythical as 'humanity'.
>
> > On Jul 19, 2:30 pm, rigsy03 <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I am aware of works/history of Michael Dorris, yes. My op/gyn quit
> > > practice over high insurance but think he was dealing with the effects
> > > upon women of recreation drugs (!) and promiscuity.
>
> > > I agree with your outlooks- except I no longer have a pet and often
> > > mourn the absense of a lover/friend. I gave up. Am not the cougar type
> > > and most men my age are falling apart! :-)
>
> > > On Jul 18, 11:25 am, Tony Orlow <t...@lightlink.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jul 18, 12:08 am, rigsy03 <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > I read a Time mag article on a concert pianist I admired- he was from
> > > > > a large family and his mother considered an abortion but changed her
> > > > > mind. That fixed my opinion rather than Church doctrines- which had
> > > > > allowed abortions, btw. I read- maybe Wm. Manchetser's slim volume on
> > > > > Chuch history, but maybe not- that the Vatican made a deal with France
> > > > > so it would repopulate after Napoleon. I am anti-abortion but don't
> > > > > run the country.
>
> > > > Have you seen messed up teenage moms with fetal alcoholism syndrome
> > > > babies? It's a very iffy subject.
>
> > > > > Rape was a bonus for military victories, wasn't it? Women were
> > > > > considered as objects. I don't think castration was considered, was
> > > > > it? Even Ike left Berlin females to the fate rapes of the Ruskies.
>
> > > > Actually, rape during war has played a big role in human evolution.
> > > > Not that I am advocating it or anything. War is garbage.
>
> > > > > Yes- let's send the politicians and brass off to the wars they invent
> > > > > along with the general population who pays for them. Imagine the
> > > > > charge of Hilary's brigade! She can take Weiner along for the ride- he
> > > > > can be her press secretary!
>
> > > > > Yes- wars are a great boost to medicine- especially new surgical
> > > > > techniques and many a millionaire starts as a war profiteer.
>
> > > > True, all too true, Prescott.
>
> > > > Peace,
>
> > > > Tony
>
> > > > > On Jul 17, 12:29 pm, ornamentalmind <ornsmindseyes...@yahoo.com>
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > Hi rigsy and Tony. You bring up a few issues I ponder and question.
>
> > > > > > First, it appears that neither of you are against abortion on the
> > > > > > grounds that it is killing, something that I believe it is… and I
> > > > > > still think it should be legal. Yet you both, perhaps for slightly
> > > > > > different reasons seen to think abortions should be 'avoided'. Both
> > > > > > cite 'convenience' as a reason that is not acceptable. Rigsy says that
> > > > > > giving birth is 'part of the cycle of life' as a reason and Tony says
> > > > > > that it is 'cold. He further implies that to abort, it must be
> > > > > > 'understandable'. This is one reason I leave it to the mother…since
> > > > > > what is 'understandable' (including the notion of 'convenience') are
> > > > > > in the eye of the beholder.
>
> > > > > > Rigsy then shared all sorts of practical justification for her moral
> > > > > > stance. As to the being part of the cycle of life, so is death as Tony
> > > > > > points out! Also, an apparent wish to further the overpopulation of
> > > > > > Earth because we can (medical 'advances'), historical gender
> > > > > > preferences and one countries solution to overpopulation (one child/
> > > > > > couple) not appearing to be perfect in her eyes all seem to be
> > > > > > incomplete 'reasons' or at worst, not valid ones.
>
> > > > > > Tony shares how most life 'in nature' just isn't 'good' and ends in
> > > > > > death. To me, if the requirement for living is to have a good life,
> > > > > > the majority of women on Earth should have been put to death long ago
> > > > > > because of the extensive occurrence of rape, slave trade, poverty,
> > > > > > hunger, disease etc. This is *IF* one accepts the premise. I won't
> > > > > > even address his notion of abortion being 'cold'.
>
> > > > > > As to his first mention of being against the draft, I too shared that
> > > > > > stance long ago. More recently (the last couple of decades) I see the
> > > > > > necessity for a draft as a way of affecting all socioeconomic groups
> > > > > > thus forcing a wider opinion…hopefully against…of supplying cannon
> > > > > > fodder. With no draft, the elite including lawmakers never have to
> > > > > > personally face the issue and can avoid doing so more easily.
>
> > > > > > OM
>
> > > > > > On Jul 17, 5:48 am, rigsy03 <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > Definitely there are reasons to abort: incest, rape, physical (mental)
> > > > > > > state of mother, incomplete/damaged fetus. I am against convenience
> > > > > > > abortions. Weak babies were once left to die- now modern medicine can
> > > > > > > save them. Boys were preferred to girls. China's one-child policy is
> > > > > > > back-firing. Well, there are many related topics. I see the bearing
> > > > > > > and raising of children as part of the cycle of life.
>
> > > > > > > We have less control to combat our fears. Am I eating Monsanto
> > > > > > > products sprayed with Round-Up? Etc.
>
> > > > > > > On Jul 17, 12:24 am, Tony Orlow <t...@lightlink.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > Hi Rigsy -
>
> > > > > > > > I started wearing my "Stop The Draft" pin from '69 last fall. We are
> > > > > > > > all being enslaved on the beach to dessicate, wave by wave until the
> > > > > > > > tide recedes. Most of that is justified by unjustifiable wars fueled
> > > > > > > > by fear, and it's time we stopped being such scaredy cats. We didn't
> > > > > > > > survive by *not* working with wolves to kill mammoths. Now we are
> > > > > > > > scared of mice and bugs. Enough of that fear tactic. Let's stop
> > > > > > > > fighting, and simply resist.
>
> > > > > > > > When it comes to abortion, I have a subtler opinion. I think they are
> > > > > > > > to be avoided, but are understandable at times. I can think of a
> > > > > > > > couple personal examples off the top of my head.
> > > > > > > > The sister of a friend of mine is a complete drunk and addict, thought
> > > > > > > > she had a miscarriage, but still remains pregnant. There were probably
> > > > > > > > fraternal twins. Now she's in jail. I'm sure that baby would never
> > > > > > > > have a chance except to be unhappy.
> > > > > > > > An ex-girlfriend was with this schizophrenic (as far as I could tell)
> > > > > > > > and abusive guy, and got pregnant. She had been on drugs and drunk
> > > > > > > > too, since she got pregnant (says she's cleaned up now), and didn't
> > > > > > > > want to have a child with this boy. She was going to have an abortion
> > > > > > > > and (at my suggestion) say she had a miscarriage. Well, she had a
> > > > > > > > miscarriage before the appointment. It was the right thing to do. God
> > > > > > > > took care of that, so it wouldn't be on her head (also at my
> > > > > > > > suggestion).
>
> > > > > > > > If a potential person has no chance at happiness, and will probably
> > > > > > > > endure enslavement and abuse (as their mother has), what is their
> > > > > > > > right to life worth?
>
> > > > > > > > In nature, most of the young are food, either killed by a predator,
> > > > > > > > starvation, suffocation, cold, heat, or some disease. That's life. It
> > > > > > > > ends in death. The important thing is that life be good.
>
> > > > > > > > In general, if one is to abort, it should be in the first trimester. I
> > > > > > > > have no problem with that rule in general. If the child makes it to
> > > > > > > > the third, that's a no-no. In the second, it depends on many factors.
> > > > > > > > And, one should never use it as birth control for convenience. That's
> > > > > > > > cold.
>
> > > > > > > > Peace,
>
> > > > > > > > Tony
>
> > > > > > > > On Jul 16, 7:29 am, rigsy03 <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > I have a problem with your opinion about death vs. murder as it does
> > > > > > > > > not cover abortions or warfare which have become antiseptic and
> > > > > > > > > remote. But this leads to a bigger can of worms. Plus there are
> > > > > > > > > multiple ways to stymie free choices.//What is your definition of a
> > > > > > > > > "slave"?
>
> > > > > > > > > On Jul 15, 3:49 am, Lee Douglas <leerevdoug...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > Umm that is an interesting take on it Tony.
>
> > > > > > > > > > I'm a great beliver in the right of the individual to live life how
> > > > > > > > > > they wish to. It comes as a by product of my other great belife yep
> > > > > > > > > > the 'Golden Rule' so I must disagree with you about not allowing
> > > > > > > > > > individuals to cuase unhappiness.
>
> > > > > > > > > > If an individual wishes to life a live causeing unhappiness for all
> > > > > > > > > > then that is their choice and they must then take the consequences of
> > > > > > > > > > that choice, if that be prison or violence or whatever. I would not
> > > > > > > > > > curtail this right of the individual but then again, I would personly
> > > > > > > > > > make the choice to counter this individuals actions if turned against
>
> ...
>
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