Re: Mind's Eye self forgiveness

And predators of every sort, it is hard to resist the urge to stand in
front like a wolverine at times. Some things turn the stomach, white
heat is one, but it pays to understand the flame.

On 7/20/2012 2:22 AM, Allan H wrote:
> Personally I do take my personal responsibility very seriously,, but I
> am not preoccupied or at least I hope.. I do think there is a certain
> responsibility one has to keep vigilance and pull the fire alarm when
> there is a 'fire' unfortunately there are a lot of fires..
> Allan
>
> On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 6:30 AM, James <ashkashal@gmail.com
> <mailto:ashkashal@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Not sure if they would like the term "preoccupation" with the
> connotation of cultural values laden judgment but it sounds fair.
> Mostly his perspective sounds reasonable given circumstances and I
> can relate to a bit of it, but "morbid" seemed the best way to
> describe the challenges. For one this person takes personal
> responsibility very seriously but gives no sign of it because it is
> a "vulnerability" people will take advantage of, he seems to have an
> automatic fear response to happiness (seems like hypervigilance but
> might be pathological fear), is very opposed personally to
> spontaneous or excited behaviors but sees it as self discipline and
> carefully manages what thoughts or emotions are shown. Much of this
> sounds like he took life's lessons a little too seriously from a
> young age, but that is where identity comes into play. The
> existential definition that I think results by one's experience with
> the world, and how that shapes subconscious behaviors, not known but
> responded to automatically. I think that is where much of the
> difficulty comes from in his case, the nature of his existence
> defined by the world, and the resistant morbid part is the response
> to those pressures. Where the world judged him harshly for being
> different he learned most couldn't find waldo on a plain sheet of
> paper. After listing a number of things that are different he had a
> smile and pointed out that his challenges are not so different from
> that of many others except the circumstances (existential definition
> I take it) in sum were not typical enough for conventional answers,
> they all lead back to square one.
>
> It was strange to hear strong emotions from such a disciplined
> person but I found it somewhat relieving, he still doesn't fit the
> mold on offer, it is inspiring. So I'm not sure what kind of advice
> to give or ask about, perhaps there is more perspective out there
> somewhere?
>
>
>
>
> On 7/19/2012 6:35 PM, rigsy03 wrote:
>
> I had another thought on self-forgiveness/morbid preoccupation: One
> may have lost all perspective and forgotten the suffering in this
> world and neglected to count the blessings. Then it also depends on
> one's culture which might inflict a very distorted view of
> anything it
> choses so the individual doesn't know any better. Families can
> also be
> so dysfunctional that normal doesn't exist or develop properly.
>
> Not sure the doctors are making profits as much as insurance and
> drug
> companies, shrinks and "counsellors". Then, the attorneys!
>
> On Jul 19, 11:44 am, Allan H<allanh1...@gmail.com
> <mailto:allanh1...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Morbid would be an excessive preoccupation with and event or
> sin.. Finally
> started to figure it out..
>
> Yes I know of the excessive cost of people taking advantage
> of a program
> that can be for free. When I came into AA the rich mans
> programs were just
> starting.. I was to poor so they didn't want anything to do
> with me.. so I
> became sober the old fashion way, not drinking and going to
> meetings.. it
> will still work today but that is to cheap for the greedy
> medical
> community.
> Allan
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 3:38 PM, rigsy03<rigs...@yahoo.com
> <mailto:rigs...@yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
> Jumping in here- my idea of "morbid guilt" would be that
> which
> paralyzes development past a trauma. It is different
> than the tumbling/
> domino reaction that a traumatic event sparks- more like
> physics or
> chemical reaction, in a way. But...what is identity?
>
>
> I don't find you "simple", Allan. Why do you disparage
> yourself? Thank
> you for being "here" so loyally- whatever "here" means! :-)
>
>
> Back to your comment about AA- essentially a seflish
> program of
> necessity. Older alcoholics who had money would go to
> spas and
> steambath their way to sobriety- until the next bout. I
> never even
> heard of AA until I was in my 30's- at that point I
> joined an Alanon
> group at a nearby church but think the divorce rate
> pretty high from
> that group- it probably was part of the motive of
> joining up- keeping
> score, so to speak, rather than understanding the
> spiritual element.
> At the same time, treatment centers started springing
> up- last I
> heard, getting sober might cost 5 figures a month. There
> is another
> element now of drug addicts going to AA rather than
> narco-something
> which introduces a whole new can of worms. Anyway, I
> think drinking
> alone is what got me in trouble when all the children
> had "graduated"
> the nest- but I was ripe, anyway. lol I really don't
> miss drinking but
> have thought if I got a fatal diagnosis in the future, I
> might need a
> few shots of single malt whiskey to ease the way to
> eternity.
>
>
> On Jul 19, 2:48 am, Allan H<allanh1...@gmail.com
> <mailto:allanh1...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I know I am simple James, but what do you mean by
> morbid guilt?
> Allan
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 5:59 AM,
> James<ashkas...@gmail.com
> <mailto:ashkas...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> On 7/17/2012 6:50 AM, Molly wrote:
>
>
> I have a friend who is contemplating self
> forgiveness. Any
>
> suggestions?
>
>
> Look back from a context of greater maturity, in
> the meantime apply
>
> time
>
> and experience: pursue excellence, appreciate
> moderation, respect
>
> processes.
>
>
> Through personal growth pieces of the story
> begin falling in place,
> motives are replaced with expanded and stronger
> ones.
>
>
> Morbid guilt might be another matter, where it
> mixes with identity
>
> seems
>
> very elusive. I have a friend that would much
> appreciate your input.
>
>
> --
> (
> )
> |_D Allan
>
>
> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
>
> --
> (
> )
> |_D Allan
>
> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.- Hide quoted
> text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> (
> )
> |_D Allan
>
> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
>
>