Re: Mind's Eye self forgiveness

Defined by the world might be a way of saying how eager it is to
standardize the individual into group form/identity. Fear of happiness
may be a reflex (hot stove example).// There is unearned guilt to
consider, perhaps.// Was thinking that some write a three act plot of
life when five are possible- exit right. :-)

On Jul 19, 11:30 pm, James <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Not sure if they would like the term "preoccupation" with the
> connotation of cultural values laden judgment but it sounds fair. Mostly
> his perspective sounds reasonable given circumstances and I can relate
> to a bit of it, but "morbid" seemed the best way to describe the
> challenges. For one this person takes personal responsibility very
> seriously but gives no sign of it because it is a "vulnerability" people
> will take advantage of, he seems to have an automatic fear response to
> happiness (seems like hypervigilance but might be pathological fear), is
> very opposed personally to spontaneous or excited behaviors but sees it
> as self discipline and carefully manages what thoughts or emotions are
> shown. Much of this sounds like he took life's lessons a little too
> seriously from a young age, but that is where identity comes into play.
> The existential definition that I think results by one's experience with
> the world, and how that shapes subconscious behaviors, not known but
> responded to automatically. I think that is where much of the difficulty
> comes from in his case, the nature of his existence defined by the
> world, and the resistant morbid part is the response to those pressures.
> Where the world judged him harshly for being different he learned most
> couldn't find waldo on a plain sheet of paper. After listing a number of
> things that are different he had a smile and pointed out that his
> challenges are not so different from that of many others except the
> circumstances (existential definition I take it) in sum were not typical
> enough for conventional answers, they all lead back to square one.
>
> It was strange to hear strong emotions from such a disciplined person
> but I found it somewhat relieving, he still doesn't fit the mold on
> offer, it is inspiring. So I'm not sure what kind of advice to give or
> ask about, perhaps there is more perspective out there somewhere?
>
> On 7/19/2012 6:35 PM, rigsy03 wrote:
>
>
>
> > I had another thought on self-forgiveness/morbid preoccupation: One
> > may have lost all perspective and forgotten the suffering in this
> > world and neglected to count the blessings. Then it also depends on
> > one's culture which might inflict a very distorted view of anything it
> > choses so the individual doesn't know any better. Families can also be
> > so dysfunctional that normal doesn't exist or develop properly.
>
> > Not sure the doctors are making profits as much as insurance and drug
> > companies, shrinks and "counsellors". Then, the attorneys!
>
> > On Jul 19, 11:44 am, Allan H<allanh1...@gmail.com>  wrote:
> >> Morbid would be an excessive preoccupation with and event or sin..  Finally
> >> started to figure it out..
>
> >> Yes I know of the excessive cost of people taking advantage of a program
> >> that can be for free. When I came into AA the rich mans programs were just
> >> starting.. I was to poor so they didn't want anything to do with me..  so I
> >> became sober the old fashion way, not drinking and going to meetings..  it
> >> will still work today  but that is to cheap for the greedy medical
> >> community.
> >> Allan
>
> >> On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 3:38 PM, rigsy03<rigs...@yahoo.com>  wrote:
> >>> Jumping in here- my idea of "morbid guilt" would be that which
> >>> paralyzes development past a trauma. It is different than the tumbling/
> >>> domino reaction that a traumatic event sparks- more like physics or
> >>> chemical reaction, in a way. But...what is identity?
>
> >>> I don't find you "simple", Allan. Why do you disparage yourself? Thank
> >>> you for being "here" so loyally- whatever "here" means! :-)
>
> >>> Back to your comment about AA- essentially a seflish program of
> >>> necessity. Older alcoholics who had money would go to spas and
> >>> steambath their way to sobriety- until the next bout. I never even
> >>> heard of AA until I was in my 30's- at that point I joined an Alanon
> >>> group at a nearby church but think the divorce rate pretty high from
> >>> that group- it probably was part of the motive of joining up- keeping
> >>> score, so to speak, rather than understanding the spiritual element.
> >>> At the same time, treatment centers started springing up- last I
> >>> heard, getting sober might cost 5 figures a month. There is another
> >>> element now of drug addicts going to AA rather than narco-something
> >>> which introduces a whole new can of worms. Anyway, I think drinking
> >>> alone is what got me in trouble when all the children had "graduated"
> >>> the nest- but I was ripe, anyway. lol I really don't miss drinking but
> >>> have thought if I got a fatal diagnosis in the future, I might need a
> >>> few shots of single malt whiskey to ease the way to eternity.
>
> >>> On Jul 19, 2:48 am, Allan H<allanh1...@gmail.com>  wrote:
> >>>> I know I am simple James,  but what do you mean by morbid guilt?
> >>>> Allan
>
> >>>> On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 5:59 AM, James<ashkas...@gmail.com>  wrote:
> >>>>> On 7/17/2012 6:50 AM, Molly wrote:
>
> >>>>>> I have a friend who is contemplating self forgiveness. Any
> >>> suggestions?
>
> >>>>> Look back from a context of greater maturity, in the meantime apply
> >>> time
> >>>>> and experience: pursue excellence, appreciate moderation, respect
> >>> processes.
>
> >>>>> Through personal growth pieces of the story begin falling in place,
> >>>>> motives are replaced with expanded and stronger ones.
>
> >>>>> Morbid guilt might be another matter, where it mixes with identity
> >>> seems
> >>>>> very elusive. I have a friend that would much appreciate your input.
>
> >>>> --
> >>>>   (
> >>>>    )
> >>>> |_D Allan
>
> >>>> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
> >> --
> >>   (
> >>    )
> >> |_D Allan
>
> >> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -