Re: Mind's Eye self forgiveness

I find the bildungsroman concept captivating, in my view a weaving
tapestry is befitting. There have been strong bourgeois influences in my
life but I think that spoils the plot, there is more to people than what
you can get out of them (cartoonish stereotypes). The real laughter
comes when you cannot laugh at the poor fool, the depth of thought
required and appreciation for our humanness compels a chuckle. And the
delayed gratification pays off, several chuckles later it sinks in that
the master was just getting started until a crescendo of absurdity roars
forth.

In real life it seems nobody else gets the joke so it is best to look
around at the gallery before bursting out at the hilarity. Are we the
butt of a private joke? :)

On 7/21/2012 5:51 AM, rigsy03 wrote:
> Defined by the world might be a way of saying how eager it is to
> standardize the individual into group form/identity. Fear of happiness
> may be a reflex (hot stove example).// There is unearned guilt to
> consider, perhaps.// Was thinking that some write a three act plot of
> life when five are possible- exit right. :-)
>
> On Jul 19, 11:30 pm, James<ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Not sure if they would like the term "preoccupation" with the
>> connotation of cultural values laden judgment but it sounds fair. Mostly
>> his perspective sounds reasonable given circumstances and I can relate
>> to a bit of it, but "morbid" seemed the best way to describe the
>> challenges. For one this person takes personal responsibility very
>> seriously but gives no sign of it because it is a "vulnerability" people
>> will take advantage of, he seems to have an automatic fear response to
>> happiness (seems like hypervigilance but might be pathological fear), is
>> very opposed personally to spontaneous or excited behaviors but sees it
>> as self discipline and carefully manages what thoughts or emotions are
>> shown. Much of this sounds like he took life's lessons a little too
>> seriously from a young age, but that is where identity comes into play.
>> The existential definition that I think results by one's experience with
>> the world, and how that shapes subconscious behaviors, not known but
>> responded to automatically. I think that is where much of the difficulty
>> comes from in his case, the nature of his existence defined by the
>> world, and the resistant morbid part is the response to those pressures.
>> Where the world judged him harshly for being different he learned most
>> couldn't find waldo on a plain sheet of paper. After listing a number of
>> things that are different he had a smile and pointed out that his
>> challenges are not so different from that of many others except the
>> circumstances (existential definition I take it) in sum were not typical
>> enough for conventional answers, they all lead back to square one.
>>
>> It was strange to hear strong emotions from such a disciplined person
>> but I found it somewhat relieving, he still doesn't fit the mold on
>> offer, it is inspiring. So I'm not sure what kind of advice to give or
>> ask about, perhaps there is more perspective out there somewhere?
>>
>> On 7/19/2012 6:35 PM, rigsy03 wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> I had another thought on self-forgiveness/morbid preoccupation: One
>>> may have lost all perspective and forgotten the suffering in this
>>> world and neglected to count the blessings. Then it also depends on
>>> one's culture which might inflict a very distorted view of anything it
>>> choses so the individual doesn't know any better. Families can also be
>>> so dysfunctional that normal doesn't exist or develop properly.
>>
>>> Not sure the doctors are making profits as much as insurance and drug
>>> companies, shrinks and "counsellors". Then, the attorneys!
>>
>>> On Jul 19, 11:44 am, Allan H<allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Morbid would be an excessive preoccupation with and event or sin.. Finally
>>>> started to figure it out..
>>
>>>> Yes I know of the excessive cost of people taking advantage of a program
>>>> that can be for free. When I came into AA the rich mans programs were just
>>>> starting.. I was to poor so they didn't want anything to do with me.. so I
>>>> became sober the old fashion way, not drinking and going to meetings.. it
>>>> will still work today but that is to cheap for the greedy medical
>>>> community.
>>>> Allan
>>
>>>> On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 3:38 PM, rigsy03<rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> Jumping in here- my idea of "morbid guilt" would be that which
>>>>> paralyzes development past a trauma. It is different than the tumbling/
>>>>> domino reaction that a traumatic event sparks- more like physics or
>>>>> chemical reaction, in a way. But...what is identity?
>>
>>>>> I don't find you "simple", Allan. Why do you disparage yourself? Thank
>>>>> you for being "here" so loyally- whatever "here" means! :-)
>>
>>>>> Back to your comment about AA- essentially a seflish program of
>>>>> necessity. Older alcoholics who had money would go to spas and
>>>>> steambath their way to sobriety- until the next bout. I never even
>>>>> heard of AA until I was in my 30's- at that point I joined an Alanon
>>>>> group at a nearby church but think the divorce rate pretty high from
>>>>> that group- it probably was part of the motive of joining up- keeping
>>>>> score, so to speak, rather than understanding the spiritual element.
>>>>> At the same time, treatment centers started springing up- last I
>>>>> heard, getting sober might cost 5 figures a month. There is another
>>>>> element now of drug addicts going to AA rather than narco-something
>>>>> which introduces a whole new can of worms. Anyway, I think drinking
>>>>> alone is what got me in trouble when all the children had "graduated"
>>>>> the nest- but I was ripe, anyway. lol I really don't miss drinking but
>>>>> have thought if I got a fatal diagnosis in the future, I might need a
>>>>> few shots of single malt whiskey to ease the way to eternity.
>>
>>>>> On Jul 19, 2:48 am, Allan H<allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> I know I am simple James, but what do you mean by morbid guilt?
>>>>>> Allan
>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 5:59 AM, James<ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 7/17/2012 6:50 AM, Molly wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>> I have a friend who is contemplating self forgiveness. Any
>>>>> suggestions?
>>
>>>>>>> Look back from a context of greater maturity, in the meantime apply
>>>>> time
>>>>>>> and experience: pursue excellence, appreciate moderation, respect
>>>>> processes.
>>
>>>>>>> Through personal growth pieces of the story begin falling in place,
>>>>>>> motives are replaced with expanded and stronger ones.
>>
>>>>>>> Morbid guilt might be another matter, where it mixes with identity
>>>>> seems
>>>>>>> very elusive. I have a friend that would much appreciate your input.
>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> (
>>>>>> )
>>>>>> |_D Allan
>>
>>>>>> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>>
>>>> --
>>>> (
>>>> )
>>>> |_D Allan
>>
>>>> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -