Thursday, July 19, 2012

Re: Mind's Eye self forgiveness

Personally I do take my personal responsibility very seriously,,  but I am not preoccupied or at least I hope.. I do think there is a certain responsibility one has to keep vigilance and pull the fire alarm when there is a 'fire'  unfortunately there are a lot of fires..
Allan

On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 6:30 AM, James <ashkashal@gmail.com> wrote:
Not sure if they would like the term "preoccupation" with the connotation of cultural values laden judgment but it sounds fair. Mostly his perspective sounds reasonable given circumstances and I can relate to a bit of it, but "morbid" seemed the best way to describe the challenges. For one this person takes personal responsibility very seriously but gives no sign of it because it is a "vulnerability" people will take advantage of, he seems to have an automatic fear response to happiness (seems like hypervigilance but might be pathological fear), is very opposed personally to spontaneous or excited behaviors but sees it as self discipline and carefully manages what thoughts or emotions are shown. Much of this sounds like he took life's lessons a little too seriously from a young age, but that is where identity comes into play. The existential definition that I think results by one's experience with the world, and how that shapes subconscious behaviors, not known but responded to automatically. I think that is where much of the difficulty comes from in his case, the nature of his existence defined by the world, and the resistant morbid part is the response to those pressures. Where the world judged him harshly for being different he learned most couldn't find waldo on a plain sheet of paper. After listing a number of things that are different he had a smile and pointed out that his challenges are not so different from that of many others except the circumstances (existential definition I take it) in sum were not typical enough for conventional answers, they all lead back to square one.

It was strange to hear strong emotions from such a disciplined person but I found it somewhat relieving, he still doesn't fit the mold on offer, it is inspiring. So I'm not sure what kind of advice to give or ask about, perhaps there is more perspective out there somewhere?




On 7/19/2012 6:35 PM, rigsy03 wrote:
I had another thought on self-forgiveness/morbid preoccupation: One
may have lost all perspective and forgotten the suffering in this
world and neglected to count the blessings. Then it also depends on
one's culture which might inflict a very distorted view of anything it
choses so the individual doesn't know any better. Families can also be
so dysfunctional that normal doesn't exist or develop properly.

Not sure the doctors are making profits as much as insurance and drug
companies, shrinks and "counsellors". Then, the attorneys!

On Jul 19, 11:44 am, Allan H<allanh1...@gmail.com>  wrote:
Morbid would be an excessive preoccupation with and event or sin..  Finally
started to figure it out..

Yes I know of the excessive cost of people taking advantage of a program
that can be for free. When I came into AA the rich mans programs were just
starting.. I was to poor so they didn't want anything to do with me..  so I
became sober the old fashion way, not drinking and going to meetings..  it
will still work today  but that is to cheap for the greedy medical
community.
Allan





On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 3:38 PM, rigsy03<rigs...@yahoo.com>  wrote:
Jumping in here- my idea of "morbid guilt" would be that which
paralyzes development past a trauma. It is different than the tumbling/
domino reaction that a traumatic event sparks- more like physics or
chemical reaction, in a way. But...what is identity?

I don't find you "simple", Allan. Why do you disparage yourself? Thank
you for being "here" so loyally- whatever "here" means! :-)

Back to your comment about AA- essentially a seflish program of
necessity. Older alcoholics who had money would go to spas and
steambath their way to sobriety- until the next bout. I never even
heard of AA until I was in my 30's- at that point I joined an Alanon
group at a nearby church but think the divorce rate pretty high from
that group- it probably was part of the motive of joining up- keeping
score, so to speak, rather than understanding the spiritual element.
At the same time, treatment centers started springing up- last I
heard, getting sober might cost 5 figures a month. There is another
element now of drug addicts going to AA rather than narco-something
which introduces a whole new can of worms. Anyway, I think drinking
alone is what got me in trouble when all the children had "graduated"
the nest- but I was ripe, anyway. lol I really don't miss drinking but
have thought if I got a fatal diagnosis in the future, I might need a
few shots of single malt whiskey to ease the way to eternity.

On Jul 19, 2:48 am, Allan H<allanh1...@gmail.com>  wrote:
I know I am simple James,  but what do you mean by morbid guilt?
Allan

On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 5:59 AM, James<ashkas...@gmail.com>  wrote:
On 7/17/2012 6:50 AM, Molly wrote:

I have a friend who is contemplating self forgiveness. Any
suggestions?

Look back from a context of greater maturity, in the meantime apply
time
and experience: pursue excellence, appreciate moderation, respect
processes.

Through personal growth pieces of the story begin falling in place,
motives are replaced with expanded and stronger ones.

Morbid guilt might be another matter, where it mixes with identity
seems
very elusive. I have a friend that would much appreciate your input.

--
  (
   )
|_D Allan

Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.

--
  (
   )
|_D Allan

Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -




--
 (
  )
|_D Allan

Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.



0 comments:

Post a Comment