Re: Mind's Eye Re: Matter

I disagree. It is a conscious choice to behave in a certain manner-
opposed to instincts. The choice is made to conform to values- whether
family, religion, social group, etc. While it is true we are a speck,
so to speak, we do have enormous influence within and upon the circle
we are in- during and even after our lifetime. To think all is pre-
ordained doesn't add up to much of a god for one thing, nor to human
intelligence, for another. Part of the problem with our modern era is
to shift responsibilty to let ourselves off the hook; but another
factor is the breakdown of the family structure often due to economic
forces as much as frivolous choices. Values can be changed- let's say
in a family unit- but it usually takes a few generations- the same
holds for nations/cultures. That's what I referred to about backward,
violent nations and types- you just can't effect meaningful instant
change- either by force/war or throwing vast sums of money after the
problems, maladjustments. And protest movements are not a new idea,
either- some worked, others did not.



On Jul 12, 12:08 pm, RP Singh <123...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You control your anger and as far as you and others are concerned you
> are free, but in reality it is the biological system that is you that
> is doing everything according to its nature. So in the context of this
> universe- machine you are just a cog following a definite course.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 7:49 PM, Lee Douglas <leerevdoug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Your reply makes no sense RP.
>
> > How does it follow that human free will would bring about the collaspe of
> > the whole 'machine'?
>
> > Are you saying that we have no conciouse control over breathing, that we
> > cannot choose to hold our breathes and in turn choose to start breathing
> > again?
>
> > I get you mostly, but I simply cannot get past the seemig contradictions.  I
> > can control my anger, I have that control yet I do not because this control
> > is just how my physical brain works?  No mate it can't be both, either I
> > have can control my anger or I cannot control anything.  Either my control
> > is real or it is an illusion, which is it?
>
> > The other thing that I have to talk about is the mechanisim by which a brain
> > that must work in line with certian laws of physics somehow negates human
> > freedom of choice? How does it do that, I mean how, exactly?
>
> > I think you are buying too much into this universe as a machine thing. There
> > exists here creatures with conciousness, and I think that it a game changer.
> > I think that when a brain that is cabaple of expressing conciouse thought
> > arises, then right there is the gremlin in the machine.  We can see that
> > humanity has changed the face of the planet for it's own ends.  It is our
> > conciousness, a conciousness that has arisen out th natural world, bound by
> > nautural laws, yet still capable of changing all around it.
>
> > Think of it this way.
>
> > Electricity is simply the movements of electrons, but ahhhh the things we
> > can now do with it, and the things that are imagined in the future.
> > Electricity like all things of mater are as you say bound by laws, and so
> > one would imagine that we can already tell what we may or may not be able to
> > do with it, are you one of those, do you imagine that we know whats in store
> > for electricity ion the future, or can you invisage other things?
>
> > On Thursday, 12 July 2012 13:53:49 UTC+1, RP Singh wrote:
>
> >> The will to change yourself comes from within you , but those who are
> >> ignorant of the intricacies of nature think that they have brought
> >> about this change. When you breathe you think that you are  freely
> >> doing so but the fact is that it is your body which is demanding it.
> >> Whether you are controlling your anger or not is in your hands but
> >> your decisions arise from the working of your brain which is matter
> >> and as such governed by neurological or biological principles. If
> >> freedom was real the whole machinery of the universe would have
> >> collapsed and there would have been mayhem everywhere , but that is
> >> not the case and wherever you look you find harmony within. Whatever a
> >> man does it is his nature expressing itself , where I would have
> >> beaten up a child mercilessly  you would not have because you are not
> >> free , if you think you are go ahead and shoot up your enemy , but of
> >> course you would not because your reason would stop you where mine
> >> would not. If you think that is freedom , then you are really the
> >> master of yourself.
>
> >> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 5:32 PM, Lee Douglas <leerevdoug...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > My youngest son, like my good self suffers form anger issues.  We have
> >> > had a
> >> > fine time in his 16 years dealing with this, teaching him to control
> >> > this
> >> > anger, urging him to learn when it is right and justfied to let it out,
> >> > and
> >> > when doing so brings only harm to him and those around him.
>
> >> > RP's stance would render all of this meaningless.  That it is not his
> >> > choice
> >> > but Gods, when he looses control of his anger, indeed that such an
> >> > expression as 'Control of his anger' becomes meaningless, there is no
> >> > control.
>
> >> > I don't like this stance, and I certianly do not agree with it.  There
> >> > are
> >> > many reasons, but perhaps the biggest is merely differances in
> >> > inturpretating this message.  God asks that you give up your head, that
> >> > you
> >> > surrender your will to the will of the One instead.  God asks and then
> >> > if
> >> > you are so inclinede you do as asked, but you certianly have the freedom
> >> > of
> >> > choice in this matter, ss in every other matter.
>
> >> > It is easy to say, I have no will but the will of the One moves through
> >> > me.
> >> > It is a cop out though isn't it?  It declares that 'I' have no choice,
> >> > that
> >> > the things I do I have not done.  Can you imagine a World where such
> >> > thinking was parramount?
>
> >> > Ohhh nooo, I do not like this line of reasonig it does not conform to
> >> > the
> >> > idea of a loving God and it makes us all guiltless of the worst of human
> >> > behaviour.
>
> >> > On Sunday, 8 July 2012 16:57:23 UTC+1, RP Singh wrote:
>
> >> >> The ' I ' is a projection of the mind , which is matter. Matter is
> >> >> under
> >> >> the control of various laws and can never be free. Many of the
> >> >> constraints
> >> >> to our 'will' are visible and accepted by all. It takes a deep
> >> >> understanding
> >> >> to the know the bondage behind the obviously ' free will ' .It is so
> >> >> easy to
> >> >> accept the obvious , but to know the subtle ties that bind us is true
> >> >> understanding.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -