Re: Mind's Eye Re: Matter

Another example would be the training of otherwise wild animals by
patient instruction and reward. In a sense, we do this when raising
children. :-)

On Jul 12, 9:19 am, Lee Douglas <leerevdoug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Your reply makes no sense RP.
>
> How does it follow that human free will would bring about the collaspe of
> the whole 'machine'?
>
> Are you saying that we have no conciouse control over breathing, that we
> cannot choose to hold our breathes and in turn choose to start breathing
> again?
>
> I get you mostly, but I simply cannot get past the seemig
> contradictions.  I can control my anger, I have that control yet I do not
> because this control is just how my physical brain works?  No mate it can't
> be both, either I have can control my anger or I cannot control anything.
> Either my control is real or it is an illusion, which is it?
>
> The other thing that I have to talk about is the mechanisim by which a
> brain that must work in line with certian laws of physics somehow negates
> human freedom of choice? How does it do that, I mean how, exactly?
>
> I think you are buying too much into this universe as a machine
> thing. There exists here creatures with conciousness, and I think that it a
> game changer.  I think that when a brain that is cabaple of expressing
> conciouse thought arises, then right there is the gremlin in the machine.
> We can see that humanity has changed the face of the planet for it's own
> ends.  It is our conciousness, a conciousness that has arisen out th
> natural world, bound by nautural laws, yet still capable of changing all
> around it.
>
> Think of it this way.
>
> Electricity is simply the movements of electrons, but ahhhh the things we
> can now do with it, and the things that are imagined in the future.
> Electricity like all things of mater are as you say bound by laws, and so
> one would imagine that we can already tell what we may or may not be able
> to do with it, are you one of those, do you imagine that we know whats in
> store for electricity ion the future, or can you invisage other things?
>
>
>
> On Thursday, 12 July 2012 13:53:49 UTC+1, RP Singh wrote:
> > The will to change yourself comes from within you , but those who are
> > ignorant of the intricacies of nature think that they have brought
> > about this change. When you breathe you think that you are  freely
> > doing so but the fact is that it is your body which is demanding it.
> > Whether you are controlling your anger or not is in your hands but
> > your decisions arise from the working of your brain which is matter
> > and as such governed by neurological or biological principles. If
> > freedom was real the whole machinery of the universe would have
> > collapsed and there would have been mayhem everywhere , but that is
> > not the case and wherever you look you find harmony within. Whatever a
> > man does it is his nature expressing itself , where I would have
> > beaten up a child mercilessly  you would not have because you are not
> > free , if you think you are go ahead and shoot up your enemy , but of
> > course you would not because your reason would stop you where mine
> > would not. If you think that is freedom , then you are really the
> > master of yourself.
>
> > On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 5:32 PM, Lee Douglas <leerevdoug...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > My youngest son, like my good self suffers form anger issues.  We have
> > had a
> > > fine time in his 16 years dealing with this, teaching him to control
> > this
> > > anger, urging him to learn when it is right and justfied to let it out,
> > and
> > > when doing so brings only harm to him and those around him.
>
> > > RP's stance would render all of this meaningless.  That it is not his
> > choice
> > > but Gods, when he looses control of his anger, indeed that such an
> > > expression as 'Control of his anger' becomes meaningless, there is no
> > > control.
>
> > > I don't like this stance, and I certianly do not agree with it.  There
> > are
> > > many reasons, but perhaps the biggest is merely differances in
> > > inturpretating this message.  God asks that you give up your head, that
> > you
> > > surrender your will to the will of the One instead.  God asks and then
> > if
> > > you are so inclinede you do as asked, but you certianly have the freedom
> > of
> > > choice in this matter, ss in every other matter.
>
> > > It is easy to say, I have no will but the will of the One moves through
> > me.
> > > It is a cop out though isn't it?  It declares that 'I' have no choice,
> > that
> > > the things I do I have not done.  Can you imagine a World where such
> > > thinking was parramount?
>
> > > Ohhh nooo, I do not like this line of reasonig it does not conform to
> > the
> > > idea of a loving God and it makes us all guiltless of the worst of human
> > > behaviour.
>
> > > On Sunday, 8 July 2012 16:57:23 UTC+1, RP Singh wrote:
>
> > >> The ' I ' is a projection of the mind , which is matter. Matter is
> > under
> > >> the control of various laws and can never be free. Many of the
> > constraints
> > >> to our 'will' are visible and accepted by all. It takes a deep
> > understanding
> > >> to the know the bondage behind the obviously ' free will ' .It is so
> > easy to
> > >> accept the obvious , but to know the subtle ties that bind us is true
> > >> understanding.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -