Re: Mind's Eye New Google Groups is Dumb,but this not the subject

There was a PBS program a couple of evenings ago re Victorian England
which was quite honest, I thought, but only played to the 1860's and
hope I will catch the rest of it. The socialists have solved very
little- nor have the communists, liberals, enviornmentalists,
warriors, politicians, entertainers, etc. World slavery is at its
highest peak, exploitation abounds, natural resources are further
diminished, etc. Anyway, we still have our versions of nabobs but our
prayers are more realistic, I hope.

On Jun 19, 5:35 pm, malcymo <malc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Do you think tired?
>
> I'm not so sure, certainly disinterested, apathetic and lazy minded; unless
> one is a fanatic.
> It would seem that the silent majority can put up with a great deal before
> they are spurred into action. It took attrocious Victorian exploitation to
> create the socialist movement.
>
> Six days was an attempt at a bit of imaginative humour, really.
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:54:12 PM UTC+12, rigsy03 wrote:
> > Why blame God? Seems to me the human race has been/is "tired".
>
> > On Jun 19, 1:04 am, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > True, God must have been a bit tired when he came up with the
> > > learning-to-write trait. :)
>
> > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 9:23 PM, malcymo <malc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Yes Gabby,
>
> > > > The human conditioning that lies with us on the blank table: our
> > > > evolutionary successful traits.Things that we can just do like learn
> > to
> > > > talk. Not the hard things like learn to write.
>
> > > > On Monday, June 18, 2012 9:48:07 PM UTC+12, gabbydott wrote:
>
> > > >> Yes, I think I know what you are aiming at. That's why I have been
> > saying
> > > >> time and time again that the blank table theory on which you put or
> > take
> > > >> away the food for development is an unuseful construct. Even if it
> > has
> > > >> four legs, it still doesn't walk, so to speak. What I'd like to raise
> > > >> awareness for is that human conditioning starts before the little
> > human
> > > >> lies on the table to be told and shown what is good and what is bad.
> > In
> > > >> that sense I'd agree that there is something "natural" in morality.
>
> > > >> On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 4:00 PM, pol.science kid  wrote:
>
> > > >>> so when you say 'the human condition makes me human'... the fact of
> > > >>> being human makes me human.?...  and the conditions that be inform
> > my
> > > >>> morality... now taking this and putting it on the dude from my
> > book... so
> > > >>> it will absolve him of any amoral or immoral calls he takes... now i
> > > >>> suppose this was the stand i was driving at... but i cant get
> > something in
> > > >>> my mind clear yet... i find somehow.. different the two worlds..
> > korea and
> > > >>> the Eusa... although the eusa has been formed after the
> > 'apocalypse'... see
> > > >>> they can make themselves yet... their history of horror might inform
> > their
> > > >>> 'morality or ethics'.. but then their life and experience will add
> > to
> > > >>> it...their instincts will still have primacy(i have my questions
> > about
> > > >>> instincts still though)... i dont see no 'evil overlord'... now if
> > some one
> > > >>> starts form blank in a scenario(the korean camp)... where they are
> > > >>> conditioned by reward and punishment..quite different form what we
> > say our
> > > >>> normal world gives.. where.. there are no bonds of sympathy... or
> > empathy..
> > > >>> where causing the death of your kin is normal... i want to ask...
> > and
> > > >>> know.. will the insticts of this person know.. how would right and
> > wrong
> > > >>> be.. what would be 'natural'.. i cant help but think there is
> > something
> > > >>> 'natural' in morality..and 'good'..what would be 'good' for those
> > born in
> > > >>> camps... wouldnt this person be different from people who came to
> > camp...
> > > >>> maybe because they have a recollection of what life can be ...
> > although
> > > >>> even civil life in North korea is very much subject to
> > control....this is
> > > >>> turning out to be a long winded thing.... but i think you may get my
> > > >>> jist....
>
> > > >>> On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 5:42 PM, gabbydott  wrote:
>
> > > >>>> Like James says, it's a familiar story. I don't think one needs to
> > have
> > > >>>> read all the books on the subject to be able to recognize a
> > universal
> > > >>>> pattern. How I relate to the world is geared by the human condition
> > that
> > > >>>> made me human and where I am drawing connections I am doing the
> > > >>>> conditioning myself. Pinpointing high and low morale on an
> > evolutionary map
> > > >>>> seems dumb in this light. My being a lion makes perfect sense at
> > one time
> > > >>>> but I expect you to treat me as a human nevertheless. That's how I
> > would
> > > >>>> approach the fear of losing history, historical knowledge and the
> > > >>>> forgetting of the morals evolved  thereof. Assessing independently
> > of
> > > >>>> judgement is a much more pleasant state of mind, I understand. :)
>
> > > >>>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 10:53 PM, pol.science kid  wrote:
>
> > > >>>>> Uh.. since i didnt read the book ..i cant reeally say what the
> > author
> > > >>>>> intends... but why i brought it up was to think about the
> > conditioning of
> > > >>>>> human beings in a very different environment.. and what kinds of
> > humans it
> > > >>>>> effects... and i was wondering whether the moral idea of a human
> > being is
> > > >>>>> universal... i read the blog you gave the link to..thanks..its a
> > very
> > > >>>>> interesting book.. looking forward to read it... i guess its
> > similar in the
> > > >>>>> way that there is a loss of history i suppose in forming
> > standards..sort of
> > > >>>>> a bleak start... but since i have little idea of what comprised
> > the world
> > > >>>>> in the book..i feel unable to draw the connection to my problem...
> > perhaps
> > > >>>>> you could...and forgive my slow uptake but i couldnt exactly place
> > the
> > > >>>>> quote in my post... the man eats lion one... is it a paradox on
> > mans high
> > > >>>>> moral being?? ... i am not able to articulate correctly... sorry
> > for giving
> > > >>>>> this weird reply..it doesnt quite make sense.. perhaps it will
> > make sense
> > > >>>>> in the morning...
>
> > > >>>>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 5:53 PM, pol.science kid < wrote:
>
> > > >>>>>> oh ..um..i just re read my post... in my post.. the line with
> > china
> > > >>>>>> and cold war... i meant to ask what was responsible for  N korea
> > turning
> > > >>>>>> that way.. sorry for eating the line.. was a bit tipsy... and ill
> > get back
> > > >>>>>> to you on your reply soon...
>
> > > >>>>>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 4:49 PM, gabbydott < wrote:
>
> > > >>>>>>> Are you saying that the author of this book is suggesting that
> > only
> > > >>>>>>> moral order has turned human life upside down and left to right
> > > >>>>>>> compared to how other worlds conceive of theirs? As in the
> > quotation of the
> > > >>>>>>> preface of another book dealing with this subject which is
> > commented on
> > > >>>>>>> here  http://gerryco23.wordpress.
> > **com/2010/07/12/riddley-walker/<
> >http://gerryco23.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/riddley-walker/>
> > > >>>>>>> ** :
> > > >>>>>>> Jesus said: Blessed the lion that the man will devour, and the
> > lion
> > > >>>>>>> will become man. And loathsome is the man that the lion will
> > devour, and
> > > >>>>>>> the lion will become man.
> > > >>>>>>> I would argue that this is too flat an argumantation. Need to do
> > > >>>>>>> something now. Sorry, that I can't expand on it now.
>
> > > >>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 8:21 PM, pol.science kid  wrote:
>
> > > >>>>>>>> I was reading and suddenly i remembered a horrifying detail...
> > just
> > > >>>>>>>> recently this book has been out... Escape from camp14.. i
> > forget the
> > > >>>>>>>> authors name.. i am wondering if i have already made a post on
> > this.. have
> > > >>>>>>>> i...? ..if yes.. sorry for the repetition.. if no.. i just cant
> > get it out
> > > >>>>>>>> of my head.. the account of this horrid life in North Korea...
> > the Cold
> > > >>>>>>>> War.. Russia.. China... ? The Western World even...Its strange
> > the people
> > > >>>>>>>> living under a fear regime for so long... brings images of
> > 1984(book)...
> > > >>>>>>>> But my issue here is a different one... I didnt read the book..
> > cos i dont
> > > >>>>>>>> have it.. but i read about it... maybe you guys can google it
> > and see.. i
> > > >>>>>>>> am too lazy to post a link here :)...  But .this..guy who
> > escapes.. he was
> > > >>>>>>>> born in the camp... and one thing he reveals is that he caused
> > the death of
> > > >>>>>>>> his mother, and siblings... or both parents.. and some
> > relatives.. to gain
> > > >>>>>>>> favor with the authorities... somethng like that is pretty
> > shocking to
> > > >>>>>>>> us... but.. how would you judge this man.. maybe we dont have a
> > right to
> > > >>>>>>>> judge him..but just hypothetically to have a discussion.. there
> > is no
> > > >>>>>>>> morality here is there... now this man.. doesnt he seem to be
> > comlpetely
> > > >>>>>>>> amoral... not immoral... maybe immoral to us... the review said
> > in the book
> > > >>>>>>>> this man shows no compunction for what he did..i am just trying
> > to concieve
> > > >>>>>>>> of these worlds...where... being human is comletely
> > different... what
> > > >>>>>>>> informs these worlds... the people who comprise it... ?..what
> > say you guys..
>
> > > >>>>>> --
> > > >>>>>> EverComing
>
> > > >>>>> --
> > > >>>>> EverComing
>
> > > >>> --
> > > >>> EverComing- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -