Re: Mind's Eye New Google Groups is Dumb,but this not the subject

Climate affects geography and raw materials so those who stay adapt
and those who can't move on- like nomads. Yet Israel is certainly an
example of rebirth while parts of Africa and Australia are the other
extreme. Water will be the major threat- sooner rather than later.
Cliamte affects my disposition- it did my father's also- I cannot
stand humidity and am grateful I live in an era of air-conditioners.
On the other hand, I would adapt rather than kill myself without a/
c. :-)

On Jun 23, 11:06 am, "pol.science kid" <r.freeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I wanted to find out about this Chaz guy you were talking about... so
> i was going through some really old posts.. but couldnt go really far
> back.. only till 2007... when was ME created? who started it? When you
> have a look..there are sooo many topics covered..its so exiting..
> though i thought i saw some homophobic posts... but seriously.. the
> range is so wide.. and there were so many members actively
> engaging ... my own old posts seemed dumb to me.. i guess they still
> are.. But its remarkable the range of this forum..im gla i joined it..
> one can learn a lot.... also ..do you guys think..different climate
> zones affect the nature of people?..i mean more than the fact that
> environment affects culture which affects to some degree human
> nature(or at least superficial responses.).. are people in temperate
> areas different in their mind than people from tropical sultry
> areas...
>
> On Jun 22, 5:02 pm, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I read Barbara Ward's "The Rich Nations and the Poor Nations" in the
> > early '60's when my curiousity led me beyond liberal arts- also
> > Carson's "The Silent Spring", and several books on WWII. 60 years
> > later- and where are we?
>
> > On Jun 19, 8:44 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > My point above, I think, is that what appears very complex may have
> > > points of simplexity where we can see the moral action.
>
> > > On Jun 20, 2:41 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > I was attracted in to have a go at new google groups - utterly
> > > > unspeakable.  These moral issues form the core of my new book (80%
> > > > done).  Underlying the moral maze is the issue of frames of reference
> > > > - most famously paradigms, though the Greeks knew.  You can usually
> > > > make several powerful arguments about anything.  You can't really
> > > > decide between the arguments because the root metaphors are different
> > > > and incommensurable.  The following were examples, exhausting if not
> > > > exhaustive:
>
> > > > PARADIGM (disciplinary matrices)        KUHN 1970; BURRELL & MORGAN 1979
> > > > PICTURE THEORY OF MEANING       WITTGENSTEIN1922
> > > > LANGUAGE GAMES  WITTGENSTEIN 1958
> > > > MULTIPLE REALITIES      JAMES1911
> > > > ALTERNATE REALITIES     CASTANEDA 1970; 1974
> > > > LANGUAGE STRUCTURES     WHORF 1956
> > > > PROBLEMATICS    ALTHUSSER 1969; BACHELARD 1949
> > > > INTERNALLY CONFLICTING WORLD VIEWS      PIRSIG 1976
> > > > WORLD HYPOTHESES        PEPPER 1942; 1966
> > > > DREAM WORLDS (multiple frameworks)      FEYERABEND 1975
> > > > EVALUATING THE RATIONALITIES OF SOCIAL ACTION AND ACTION SYSTEMS
> > > > (instrumental v life-world rationalities)       HABERMAS 1984
> > > > AN INSURRECTION OF LOCAL KNOWLEDGES IN A WEB OF POWER KNOWLEDGE
> > > > FOUCAULT 1977; 1980
> > > > MODAL LOGICS, RELATIVITIES      LEWIS 1926; 1929; 1946:  MOSER 1989
> > > > SPECULATIVE PHILOSOPHY  WHITEHEAD 1969
> > > > METAPHOR        MORGAN 1986
> > > > TWO DIRECTIONAL TEXT AND RETRO-VISION   BURRELL 1997
>
> > > > A classic example was held to be Newton's mechanics and Einstein's
> > > > relativity and quantum theory.  Very dense work by Snell and Ludvig
> > > > disproves this IMHO.  I take a similar view and believe the problem is
> > > > we work in the ready-to-hand and don't get down deep enough to know
> > > > what we are talking about.  English Law does not allow the cabin boy
> > > > to be eaten to survive when all else is lost - you have to give him
> > > > the same shake of the dice everyone else gets.
>
> > > > Bankers and others are always telling us they are worth their massive
> > > > thefts.  There arguments relies on many frames of reference.  In short
> > > > argument, I merely note they are 'responsible' for profits and never
> > > > losses.  I believe it would be moral to work out what they have lost
> > > > (some estimates at $39 trillion in the US) and take it off all bankers
> > > > since 1970.  Such clawback is in line with performance related pay
> > > > they claim to believe in.
>
> > > > On Jun 20, 12:53 am, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > I know I've been plenty tired lately - like Madeline Kahn in Blazing
> > > > > Saddles:  http://youtu.be/Uai7M4RpoLU
>
> > > > > On Jun 19, 6:35 pm, malcymo <malc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > Do you think tired?
>
> > > > > > I'm not so sure, certainly disinterested, apathetic and lazy minded; unless
> > > > > > one is a fanatic.
> > > > > > It would seem that the silent majority can put up with a great deal before
> > > > > > they are spurred into action. It took attrocious Victorian exploitation to
> > > > > > create the socialist movement.
>
> > > > > > Six days was an attempt at a bit of imaginative humour, really.
>
> > > > > > On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:54:12 PM UTC+12, rigsy03 wrote:
> > > > > > > Why blame God? Seems to me the human race has been/is "tired".
>
> > > > > > > On Jun 19, 1:04 am, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > True, God must have been a bit tired when he came up with the
> > > > > > > > learning-to-write trait. :)
>
> > > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 9:23 PM, malcymo <malc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Yes Gabby,
>
> > > > > > > > > The human conditioning that lies with us on the blank table: our
> > > > > > > > > evolutionary successful traits.Things that we can just do like learn
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > talk. Not the hard things like learn to write.
>
> > > > > > > > > On Monday, June 18, 2012 9:48:07 PM UTC+12, gabbydott wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > >> Yes, I think I know what you are aiming at. That's why I have been
> > > > > > > saying
> > > > > > > > >> time and time again that the blank table theory on which you put or
> > > > > > > take
> > > > > > > > >> away the food for development is an unuseful construct. Even if it
> > > > > > > has
> > > > > > > > >> four legs, it still doesn't walk, so to speak. What I'd like to raise
> > > > > > > > >> awareness for is that human conditioning starts before the little
> > > > > > > human
> > > > > > > > >> lies on the table to be told and shown what is good and what is bad.
> > > > > > > In
> > > > > > > > >> that sense I'd agree that there is something "natural" in morality.
>
> > > > > > > > >> On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 4:00 PM, pol.science kid  wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > >>> so when you say 'the human condition makes me human'... the fact of
> > > > > > > > >>> being human makes me human.?...  and the conditions that be inform
> > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > >>> morality... now taking this and putting it on the dude from my
> > > > > > > book... so
> > > > > > > > >>> it will absolve him of any amoral or immoral calls he takes... now i
> > > > > > > > >>> suppose this was the stand i was driving at... but i cant get
> > > > > > > something in
> > > > > > > > >>> my mind clear yet... i find somehow.. different the two worlds..
> > > > > > > korea and
> > > > > > > > >>> the Eusa... although the eusa has been formed after the
> > > > > > > 'apocalypse'... see
> > > > > > > > >>> they can make themselves yet... their history of horror might inform
> > > > > > > their
> > > > > > > > >>> 'morality or ethics'.. but then their life and experience will add
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > >>> it...their instincts will still have primacy(i have my questions
> > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > >>> instincts still though)... i dont see no 'evil overlord'... now if
> > > > > > > some one
> > > > > > > > >>> starts form blank in a scenario(the korean camp)... where they are
> > > > > > > > >>> conditioned by reward and punishment..quite different form what we
> > > > > > > say our
> > > > > > > > >>> normal world gives.. where.. there are no bonds of sympathy... or
> > > > > > > empathy..
> > > > > > > > >>> where causing the death of your kin is normal... i want to ask...
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > >>> know.. will the insticts of this person know.. how would right and
> > > > > > > wrong
> > > > > > > > >>> be.. what would be 'natural'.. i cant help but think there is
> > > > > > > something
> > > > > > > > >>> 'natural' in morality..and 'good'..what would be 'good' for those
> > > > > > > born in
> > > > > > > > >>> camps... wouldnt this person be different from people who came to
> > > > > > > camp...
> > > > > > > > >>> maybe because they have a recollection of what life can be ...
> > > > > > > although
> > > > > > > > >>> even civil life in North korea is very much subject to
> > > > > > > control....this is
> > > > > > > > >>> turning out to be a long winded thing.... but i think you may get my
> > > > > > > > >>> jist....
>
> > > > > > > > >>> On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 5:42 PM, gabbydott  wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > >>>> Like James says, it's a familiar story. I don't think one needs to
> > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > >>>> read all the books on the subject to be able to recognize a
> > > > > > > universal
> > > > > > > > >>>> pattern. How I relate to the world is geared by the human condition
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > >>>> made me human and where I am drawing connections I am doing the
> > > > > > > > >>>> conditioning myself. Pinpointing high and low morale on an
> > > > > > > evolutionary map
> > > > > > > > >>>> seems dumb in this light. My being a lion makes perfect sense at
> > > > > > > one time
> > > > > > > > >>>> but I expect you to treat me as a human nevertheless. That's how I
> > > > > > > would
> > > > > > > > >>>> approach the fear of losing history, historical knowledge and the
> > > > > > > > >>>> forgetting of the morals evolved  thereof. Assessing independently
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > >>>> judgement is a much more pleasant state of mind, I understand. :)
>
> > > > > > > > >>>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 10:53 PM, pol.science kid  wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > >>>>> Uh.. since i didnt read the book ..i cant reeally say what the
> > > > > > > author
> > > > > > > > >>>>> intends... but why i brought it up was to think about the
> > > > > > > conditioning of
>
> ...
>
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