was concerned with transplant issues. It is also a topic for
philosophers.
Didn't the Spartans try to "engineer" a super race?
What about government interference?
Let's consider what has happened to certain dogs, shall we?
Lordy, Lordy- sometimes it is lovely to have been an old-fashioned
girl!
On Jul 19, 4:30 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Abortion is not anything much in history. We are now almost in the
> territory of decisions on altering our species and creating something
> very different. I'm of the view that humanity is more or less a waste
> of time and I'd rather trust decisions to people than anything quite
> as mythical as 'humanity'.
>
> On Jul 19, 2:30 pm, rigsy03 <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I am aware of works/history of Michael Dorris, yes. My op/gyn quit
> > practice over high insurance but think he was dealing with the effects
> > upon women of recreation drugs (!) and promiscuity.
>
> > I agree with your outlooks- except I no longer have a pet and often
> > mourn the absense of a lover/friend. I gave up. Am not the cougar type
> > and most men my age are falling apart! :-)
>
> > On Jul 18, 11:25 am, Tony Orlow <t...@lightlink.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 18, 12:08 am, rigsy03 <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > I read a Time mag article on a concert pianist I admired- he was from
> > > > a large family and his mother considered an abortion but changed her
> > > > mind. That fixed my opinion rather than Church doctrines- which had
> > > > allowed abortions, btw. I read- maybe Wm. Manchetser's slim volume on
> > > > Chuch history, but maybe not- that the Vatican made a deal with France
> > > > so it would repopulate after Napoleon. I am anti-abortion but don't
> > > > run the country.
>
> > > Have you seen messed up teenage moms with fetal alcoholism syndrome
> > > babies? It's a very iffy subject.
>
> > > > Rape was a bonus for military victories, wasn't it? Women were
> > > > considered as objects. I don't think castration was considered, was
> > > > it? Even Ike left Berlin females to the fate rapes of the Ruskies.
>
> > > Actually, rape during war has played a big role in human evolution.
> > > Not that I am advocating it or anything. War is garbage.
>
> > > > Yes- let's send the politicians and brass off to the wars they invent
> > > > along with the general population who pays for them. Imagine the
> > > > charge of Hilary's brigade! She can take Weiner along for the ride- he
> > > > can be her press secretary!
>
> > > > Yes- wars are a great boost to medicine- especially new surgical
> > > > techniques and many a millionaire starts as a war profiteer.
>
> > > True, all too true, Prescott.
>
> > > Peace,
>
> > > Tony
>
> > > > On Jul 17, 12:29 pm, ornamentalmind <ornsmindseyes...@yahoo.com>
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > Hi rigsy and Tony. You bring up a few issues I ponder and question.
>
> > > > > First, it appears that neither of you are against abortion on the
> > > > > grounds that it is killing, something that I believe it is… and I
> > > > > still think it should be legal. Yet you both, perhaps for slightly
> > > > > different reasons seen to think abortions should be 'avoided'. Both
> > > > > cite 'convenience' as a reason that is not acceptable. Rigsy says that
> > > > > giving birth is 'part of the cycle of life' as a reason and Tony says
> > > > > that it is 'cold. He further implies that to abort, it must be
> > > > > 'understandable'. This is one reason I leave it to the mother…since
> > > > > what is 'understandable' (including the notion of 'convenience') are
> > > > > in the eye of the beholder.
>
> > > > > Rigsy then shared all sorts of practical justification for her moral
> > > > > stance. As to the being part of the cycle of life, so is death as Tony
> > > > > points out! Also, an apparent wish to further the overpopulation of
> > > > > Earth because we can (medical 'advances'), historical gender
> > > > > preferences and one countries solution to overpopulation (one child/
> > > > > couple) not appearing to be perfect in her eyes all seem to be
> > > > > incomplete 'reasons' or at worst, not valid ones.
>
> > > > > Tony shares how most life 'in nature' just isn't 'good' and ends in
> > > > > death. To me, if the requirement for living is to have a good life,
> > > > > the majority of women on Earth should have been put to death long ago
> > > > > because of the extensive occurrence of rape, slave trade, poverty,
> > > > > hunger, disease etc. This is *IF* one accepts the premise. I won't
> > > > > even address his notion of abortion being 'cold'.
>
> > > > > As to his first mention of being against the draft, I too shared that
> > > > > stance long ago. More recently (the last couple of decades) I see the
> > > > > necessity for a draft as a way of affecting all socioeconomic groups
> > > > > thus forcing a wider opinion…hopefully against…of supplying cannon
> > > > > fodder. With no draft, the elite including lawmakers never have to
> > > > > personally face the issue and can avoid doing so more easily.
>
> > > > > OM
>
> > > > > On Jul 17, 5:48 am, rigsy03 <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > Definitely there are reasons to abort: incest, rape, physical (mental)
> > > > > > state of mother, incomplete/damaged fetus. I am against convenience
> > > > > > abortions. Weak babies were once left to die- now modern medicine can
> > > > > > save them. Boys were preferred to girls. China's one-child policy is
> > > > > > back-firing. Well, there are many related topics. I see the bearing
> > > > > > and raising of children as part of the cycle of life.
>
> > > > > > We have less control to combat our fears. Am I eating Monsanto
> > > > > > products sprayed with Round-Up? Etc.
>
> > > > > > On Jul 17, 12:24 am, Tony Orlow <t...@lightlink.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > Hi Rigsy -
>
> > > > > > > I started wearing my "Stop The Draft" pin from '69 last fall. We are
> > > > > > > all being enslaved on the beach to dessicate, wave by wave until the
> > > > > > > tide recedes. Most of that is justified by unjustifiable wars fueled
> > > > > > > by fear, and it's time we stopped being such scaredy cats. We didn't
> > > > > > > survive by *not* working with wolves to kill mammoths. Now we are
> > > > > > > scared of mice and bugs. Enough of that fear tactic. Let's stop
> > > > > > > fighting, and simply resist.
>
> > > > > > > When it comes to abortion, I have a subtler opinion. I think they are
> > > > > > > to be avoided, but are understandable at times. I can think of a
> > > > > > > couple personal examples off the top of my head.
> > > > > > > The sister of a friend of mine is a complete drunk and addict, thought
> > > > > > > she had a miscarriage, but still remains pregnant. There were probably
> > > > > > > fraternal twins. Now she's in jail. I'm sure that baby would never
> > > > > > > have a chance except to be unhappy.
> > > > > > > An ex-girlfriend was with this schizophrenic (as far as I could tell)
> > > > > > > and abusive guy, and got pregnant. She had been on drugs and drunk
> > > > > > > too, since she got pregnant (says she's cleaned up now), and didn't
> > > > > > > want to have a child with this boy. She was going to have an abortion
> > > > > > > and (at my suggestion) say she had a miscarriage. Well, she had a
> > > > > > > miscarriage before the appointment. It was the right thing to do. God
> > > > > > > took care of that, so it wouldn't be on her head (also at my
> > > > > > > suggestion).
>
> > > > > > > If a potential person has no chance at happiness, and will probably
> > > > > > > endure enslavement and abuse (as their mother has), what is their
> > > > > > > right to life worth?
>
> > > > > > > In nature, most of the young are food, either killed by a predator,
> > > > > > > starvation, suffocation, cold, heat, or some disease. That's life. It
> > > > > > > ends in death. The important thing is that life be good.
>
> > > > > > > In general, if one is to abort, it should be in the first trimester. I
> > > > > > > have no problem with that rule in general. If the child makes it to
> > > > > > > the third, that's a no-no. In the second, it depends on many factors.
> > > > > > > And, one should never use it as birth control for convenience. That's
> > > > > > > cold.
>
> > > > > > > Peace,
>
> > > > > > > Tony
>
> > > > > > > On Jul 16, 7:29 am, rigsy03 <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > I have a problem with your opinion about death vs. murder as it does
> > > > > > > > not cover abortions or warfare which have become antiseptic and
> > > > > > > > remote. But this leads to a bigger can of worms. Plus there are
> > > > > > > > multiple ways to stymie free choices.//What is your definition of a
> > > > > > > > "slave"?
>
> > > > > > > > On Jul 15, 3:49 am, Lee Douglas <leerevdoug...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > Umm that is an interesting take on it Tony.
>
> > > > > > > > > I'm a great beliver in the right of the individual to live life how
> > > > > > > > > they wish to. It comes as a by product of my other great belife yep
> > > > > > > > > the 'Golden Rule' so I must disagree with you about not allowing
> > > > > > > > > individuals to cuase unhappiness.
>
> > > > > > > > > If an individual wishes to life a live causeing unhappiness for all
> > > > > > > > > then that is their choice and they must then take the consequences of
> > > > > > > > > that choice, if that be prison or violence or whatever. I would not
> > > > > > > > > curtail this right of the individual but then again, I would personly
> > > > > > > > > make the choice to counter this individuals actions if turned against
> > > > > > > > > me or mine, and I don't doubt that others would make the same choice
> > > > > > > > > that I would.
>
> > > > > > > > > I also doubt the power of murder to change thinks for the worst for
> > > > > > > > > the majority of people, the rate of murder is overall really not that
> > > > > > > > > high, so I must also disagree with you on that score.
>
> > > > > > > > > For me the evilness of murder stems not from taking somebody elses
> > > > > > > > > life, after all we are all destined to die, so death in and of itself
> > > > > > > > > I can't see as an evil thing. Nope for me it is the taking away from
> > > > > > > > > somebody all future choices, this I think is a great evil.
>
> ...
>
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