You are right, Neil! It is only when we have a positive attitude that we struggle against all odds. So we should be positive and yet strong enough to endure the worst.
On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 10:32 AM, archytas <nwterry@gmail.com> wrote:
Detachment is tough to reconcile with action and its motivation RP. 'I don't give a damn, therefore I will'? Politicians do a lot of deflating aspiration in order that we be satisfied with their crumbs. Pre-selecting defeat isn't a good thing, though one might take the depressive position that the best to hope for is normal unhappiness! Do we give up a cricket match after a disaster batting performance of 80 all out, the other side on 72 for 2 and an hour to go - detach ourselves to the statistical likelihood of defeat - or change the bowling and win the championship against all statistical fate? One gets these little treats of triumph from time to time. Depressing though, to think we need something as unlikely as this to get rid of our corrupt world. Podemos, the Spanish left-wing party means 'we can'. It should, of course, be an international movement we could all vote for.
On Wednesday, February 4, 2015 at 4:18:14 AM UTC, RP Singh wrote:So I conclude that detachment is not such a good thing and I would rather be positive with its chance of going into shock than to be indifferent to any outcome.On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 8:36 AM, archytas <nwterry@gmail.com> wrote:Biologically we split fairly well into two temperaments as infants. Detachment seems reasonable as an 'ideal type' RP - though it has also been the excuse of 'fascist steel' and economists so stupid they imagine they act by replicating the scientists' "objectivity" - a mythical state. Your point was taken up by the Freud of 'Modernity and its Discontents' and the split between the paranoid-schizoid and 'depressive' positions towards life. Max Weber articulated the rational-legal position as against charismatic fascism, but also worried about the iron cage of bureaucracy. Heidegger and much eastern philosophy (which we have taken up in the West with too much Greek modification and copying) focuses on what it is to be. I'm more materialist at the beginning of analysis and think we need to understand the big difference between what we can create with technology and its business control. Veblen got to this, but his theory doesn't suit the powerful. Around 1910 we had a lot of active political debate here on democratic foreign policy (here people like ED Morel who unseated Churchill in Dundee, Wallace in the US and Gandhi). Even the Nazis had socialists who wanted a union of free workers across Europe. I think we can safely say fascism in Weber's sense has won. The world remains run by oligarchies who cut up the booty between them..
On Wednesday, February 4, 2015 at 1:33:23 AM UTC, RP Singh wrote:We can have a positive attitude or a negative attitude , but can we have a neutral attitude?On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 6:16 AM, RP Singh <1234rp@gmail.com> wrote:I have found that attachment to fruits of actions lead to much heartbreak when the opposite of your expectation happens. It is written in the Gita that a person should live in a state of detachment and be the same in the good or bad occurrences , I don't know if this is possible human nature being what it is , but if we can reach this state I think we can be better persons. Everything being history only actions are in our hands including that of efforts to change ourselves , and the future is history. If you are expecting good and something very bad happens it seems like a shock and for some moment at least you lose your balance but if you are detached to the fruits of actions you are in a state of coolness and not shaken by the greatest calamity ever.On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 2:44 PM, RP Singh <1234rp@gmail.com> wrote:You have to accept before you do and if you cannot accept the process stops. You have to keep some framework in your conscious mind to keep a conscious check on yourself and it is not a creed but a way of living , trying to improve yourself as a person. Now what wrong could be there in having self-respect and not being arrogant , what wrong in not being greedy and not have anger issues. If you want to stop smoking you have to first take the decision to stop , then only can you give the effort.On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 2:02 PM, archytas <nwterry@gmail.com> wrote:I don't really do creed Allan. Found too many people who talk them and mean none. Chris' statement is probably as close as I get, but this soon doesn't work in practice. Doing no harm to others quickly proves difficult. We do this in the West simply by living as we do, praying to the Lord or otherwise. In some philosophy, all speech has a hostile element,as does censorship on what can be said.The first thing for me is evidence. This is an extremely difficult topic. Molly's God is quite acceptable to me, but my evidence is not direct. I only feel 'him' in her words (even this in evidence terms is inadequate - 'words' - we have never met).The next is probably what Allan is trying to do here. I have some conception of myself as a person and the turmoil of my thought and making sense of stuff. Other people have often proved to have much better (and much worse) ideas and been prepared to share them. George Kelly springs to my mind on this - http://www.centrepcp.co.uk/whatis.htm - and personal construct theory.I approve Allan's efforts here (though it's important to me he need no such approval) - but immediately think we have a lot of material from all over the world and hundreds of different cultures (there are this many on Papua New Guinea alone). What of the evidence we have from them, against our predominantly 'white insularity'?Evidence, imagination and trying to do the right thing. Read about Socrates in Plato, but remember the fine words came from the free table at the head of a slave society. Hear about the Good Samaritan, but wonder why we still have a society of 'worthies' that just pass on by, perhaps to their church of peace.Gabby doesn't live down a rabbit hole in Seven Acres Park Allan. I thought she might not be answering the dogs' knocks because she doesn't like me, so asked the woman with the ferrets (she is real) to have them check. The world of imagination is such that when Gabbs says 'it smells in here' it could be because she has just come in, or she may be the little child pointing out the Emperor is naked. Language is harder than we think. I have 'one smart little cookie' in mind about Gabby. This could be chronic sexism, patronising, an insult to cookies - or a quick utter of something I think that isn't quite that - or an offer to be beaten up by politically correct bullies. Walk with me into the rabbit hole of !Kung society - we would find no adult twins and we might ponder genetics - in fact, infanticide is common in their tough world. Would we think badly of them? They have creed.It goes dark at night, therefore big bang. I prefer the way scientists explain this to instruments of torture. Doing no harm to others collapses with je suis charlie. Religion sounds very selfish to me. Yet one can admire Salvation Army people doing a soup run, despite their views on homosexuality. Would I kill the second born twin? Down the !Kung rabbit hole I probably would as !Kung. So where does creed come from?I'd like us to live in evidence based practice. Why we still speak of creed in today's world of Public Relations appals me.
On Sunday, February 1, 2015 at 10:07:28 PM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote:Neil are you sure Cabbies hiding in a rabbit hole?? Would like the guidelines she and the rest of the ME following..
تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Jenkins <digitalprecipice@gmail.com>
To: Minds-Eye <minds-eye@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sun, 01 Feb 2015 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Moral compassIt's difficult to boil something as complex as personal moral relativism down into some simple edicts. I suppose the closest I could add would be:- If it harms none, do as you will.--On Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 2:37 PM, Allan H <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:I hope others doctrine their personal moral ideas to the discussion. The more we have the better ,, that includes you Chris. And Neil.
تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others
-----Original Message-----
From: RP Singh <1234rp@gmail.com>
To: Minds Eye <minds-eye@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sun, 01 Feb 2015 3:37 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Moral compassMy moral compassDon't fear anything , but use your reasoning faculty to do the right thing.do not covet but earn and save for the needs of yourself and family.Do not be lustful but be happy with your spouse.Do not be arrogant but respect yourself and others.Don't be angry but take care to do your duties.--On Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 7:20 PM, Allan H <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:If you want a social experiment we need to set up moral guidelines from which to work.. if you disagree with them that is fine. ,, no problem.. just remember it really is a social experiment,, you need to come up with what your personal moral compass to replace it.. it is not a cut and paste exercise. My compass is around 500 created in length,, presentations should around that length.
My Compass:
Love the Allfather with my whole Soul & being...
Love my neighbor as myself
As I judge other so too will I be judge
Do No Harm
Avoid murder, rape or enslavement of others
Avoid being enslaved by possessions
~~~※☆※~~~
Jesus said "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the light of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered."
تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others --
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