The link isn't dodgy. You have to click on advanced when the page saying it isn't 'safe' comes up. It really is just a PDF of a thesis on the topic. I get a lot of these auto-protects these days to academic material. Should have warned in advance but thought everyone would know.
-- The abstract considers Tony's good point on threat/salvation.
'This dissertation argues that mainstream discourse on theology and morality often fails to explore the value and credibility of different theological approaches and the possibility of moral evolution and that, as a result, we need to pay more attention to arenas which allow for deeper speculation about theology and morality. Following an observation by Margaret Atwood, I argue that one such space within literature is literary science fiction and fantasy. In my first chapter, I argue that, while some science fiction merely echoes the limitations of mainstream debate, the genres can creatively explore theological questions because, like myth and theology, they contextualize known existence and voice what I call "transcendent outsiders," beings who are superior to humans and provide critical and comforting outside perspectives. In the second and third chapters, I draw on the work of writers such as Carl Jung, Brenda Denzler, and Linda Dégh on alien beings as spiritual/theological figures to argue that a range of narratives and films, such as The Day the Earth Stood Still and Carl Sagan's Contact, present aliens as godlike transcendent outsider figures in ways that explore, endorse, or critique various theological conceptualizations: in chapter two, the judgmental, punishing god figures of much ancient myth and traditional religion; in chapter three, more loving, peaceful god figures echoing Eastern and New Age theological concepts and progressive spirituality. In chapter four, I argue that science fiction and fantasy also contextualize by depicting what I call "aspiring human" figures, a kind of flipside of transcendent outsiders which allows us to explore human identity and morality and, by positioning us as gods, theology. I assert that in his Wizard Knight and Short Sun series, Gene Wolfe uses an array of aspiring humans to raise deep questions about human identity, morality, and theology and to present hierarchical Christian solutions. I conclude by suggesting both a fresh approach to theology that emphasizes the need for imaginative, open-minded speculation about transcendence that goes beyond the limitations of the mainstream debate and an increased recognition of the value of science fiction and fantasy as literary arenas in which important, creative theological speculation is occurring.'
On Friday, 17 October 201419:44:27 UTC+1, facilitator wrote:
On Friday, 17 October 201419:44:27 UTC+1, facilitator wrote:
Link is dysfunctional. My browser rejects it.
On Friday, October 17, 2014 12:23:46 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote:There's a PhD attempt on the theme here - https://suny-dspace.longsight.com/bitstream/ handle/1951/55962/Calvey_grad. sunysb_0771E_10436.pdf? sequence=1&isAllowed=y
On Friday, 17 October 2014 16:00:31 UTC+1, archytas wrote:Molly's salamander description is sort of alien. Radio signals from my aliens would be 100,000 years away Tony - we would have to be able to scan the dark as they do and 'see' in different time. Not much point in them radioing a warning about the asteroid to us! Promethius, a poor film, has us finding nasty aliens sleeping on a distant planet and stealing one of their ships to go looking for 'who made them'. Zero times zero is actually interesting in maths, much as infinity. More relevant, I guess, is that there were no black swans once on the grounds of logic and lack of knowledge of Australia.My dogs share my world of sight, but I have to imagine (guided by some science) the world of their noses. Hollywood is naff and its aliens all-too-human and bound in space-time. Time to walk said animals and discuss non-commutative geometry with them (no one else listens). This is about the order of doing things - a bit like looking at one of Facil's structures from and in different orders of perspective and cue. The dogs listen intently until the treats run out! Moll's salamander symbol could be the alien from Alien, given the teeth.
On Friday, 17 October 2014 14:46:25 UTC+1, facilitator wrote:For the most part I think people consider them some sort of savior while hollywood persists in seeing them as a danger to humanity. Science feels it would be the death blow to any remaining religious belief. Math poses a problem to Drakes law, zero times zero is still zero. No news is bad news on the search of radio signals. I think many follow the Mulder theorem "I want to believe".
On Friday, October 17, 2014 8:09:34 AM UTC-4, archytas wrote:Apparently, atheists and Muslims are most likely to believe in aliens. I suppose religionists are more likely to be prone to 'visions' and guess atheists (I've never quite met one) know about Drake's Law (in a universe so big there not being other life is unlikely). Various chimera exist in our literature from times when more than a few days' walk was to enter 'alien territory'. My alien experiences as a child were of the face at the widow kind and being terrified by dreams of golden-clawed lobsters coming out from under the bed. Later, post-op morphine was pretty good, as was post-exhaustion on army exercises (where I asked a werewolf for directions).Much alien stuff is pretty religious - good guys might come offering salvation like a couple of fusion reactors and bad guys might unite us in a battle against their evil. Joining the EU was once about salvation, just as leaving is now. Human beings often seem pretty alien to me (touch of autism). MumboJumbo was some kind of Congo jungle spirit used to prevent women wandering off - all rather religious. The fantastic power of aliens in travelling space-time (Facil's sculpture is brilliantly fantastic as its constituents would melt, yet is also a symbol of escape to salvation - maybe like the Mayflower and current rickety refugee boats).The alien in religion, especially control fraud religion like economics, can be salvation or hideous control (the sky will fall, MumboJumbo will get you, Judgement Day) - and perhaps even makes the believer alien-chosen as in Rapture. Under dire religious control of ridiculous status quo blood debts (Lele) or banks, maybe the spirit flies to the alien - 'my invisible big brother will get you' with plagues of frogs. Anything other than the practical, like replacing banks with block chain technologies and plastic crap economies with serious development of clean energy and space-craft that can survive space weather.Good question Tony - I suspect I'd have to experience religion first to give an answer. The contest between golden salamanders in hats is not my bag. My aliens, currently diverted into tapping vacuum energy near the centre of our galaxy (this is why our super-massive blackhole is grey) 100,000 light-years away, are coming to tell us to get on with peace or they'll bomb us to kingdom come - sadly highly derivative of US (Western) foreign policy as spoken to us. Our galaxy, they will explain, has been infected by the spider-ant slavers from Andromeda, another religious-type ploy. How will we know they are not the spider-ants? All we need for salvation is a small implant that will allow us to live on a higher plane.
On Thursday, 16 October 2014 17:52:39 UTC+1, facilitator wrote:Throughout the discussions occasionally the topic of "Aliens", Alien life, has come up. My view: I don't think so. (And this from someone who has witnessed two UFO's). What is (are) your argument(s) for believing (religious connotation) in Alien life?
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