Re: Mind's Eye self forgiveness

The salmon- wild Alaskan- have a fantastic life plan- truly beautiful.
Unlike humans or the various rationales devised in human eras/
societies, animals are really quite civilized. Hopefully the Pebbles
mine project (Frontline-PBS-7-24-12) will be rejected and denied a
permit so one of the last pure salmon runs can continue- but money/
greed/power has already proved itself throughout history. Why
generation after generation believes these "rationales" is beyond me-
what's worse, no one escapes contributing to the fraud of it all.
Anyway, have also seen the ragged end of the salmon's journey= bear
food. You have to net them before they enter the rivers- at their
peak.

On Jul 24, 5:31 am, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The Serenity Prayer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serenity_Prayer) comes to
> mind at this stage. This would also fit better our pink bubble warrior
> Molly, who needs to give advice to her friend. - Let's not forget the
> purpose of this thread, or, as Rigsy reminds us, the path salmons take or
> not take.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 9:44 AM, James <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I was just reading the news, a rare occurrence, another reminder why..
> > Somewhere under contempt, anger, and shame is will, a couple leaps further
> > to hope, pride gets a bad treatment in the process but is replaced with
> > resolve. One matter stands out though. That is the role of acceptance and
> > how it can develop into affirmations, I think that comes into the resolve
> > stage.
>
> > Just a few of my reflections, I am certainly open to input.
>
> > On 7/21/2012 10:21 PM, James wrote:
>
> >> And predators of every sort, it is hard to resist the urge to stand in
> >> front like a wolverine at times. Some things turn the stomach, white
> >> heat is one, but it pays to understand the flame.
>
> >> On 7/20/2012 2:22 AM, Allan H wrote:
>
> >>> Personally I do take my personal responsibility very seriously,, but I
> >>> am not preoccupied or at least I hope.. I do think there is a certain
> >>> responsibility one has to keep vigilance and pull the fire alarm when
> >>> there is a 'fire' unfortunately there are a lot of fires..
> >>> Allan
>
> >>> On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 6:30 AM, James <ashkas...@gmail.com
> >>> <mailto:ashkas...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> >>> Not sure if they would like the term "preoccupation" with the
> >>> connotation of cultural values laden judgment but it sounds fair.
> >>> Mostly his perspective sounds reasonable given circumstances and I
> >>> can relate to a bit of it, but "morbid" seemed the best way to
> >>> describe the challenges. For one this person takes personal
> >>> responsibility very seriously but gives no sign of it because it is
> >>> a "vulnerability" people will take advantage of, he seems to have an
> >>> automatic fear response to happiness (seems like hypervigilance but
> >>> might be pathological fear), is very opposed personally to
> >>> spontaneous or excited behaviors but sees it as self discipline and
> >>> carefully manages what thoughts or emotions are shown. Much of this
> >>> sounds like he took life's lessons a little too seriously from a
> >>> young age, but that is where identity comes into play. The
> >>> existential definition that I think results by one's experience with
> >>> the world, and how that shapes subconscious behaviors, not known but
> >>> responded to automatically. I think that is where much of the
> >>> difficulty comes from in his case, the nature of his existence
> >>> defined by the world, and the resistant morbid part is the response
> >>> to those pressures. Where the world judged him harshly for being
> >>> different he learned most couldn't find waldo on a plain sheet of
> >>> paper. After listing a number of things that are different he had a
> >>> smile and pointed out that his challenges are not so different from
> >>> that of many others except the circumstances (existential definition
> >>> I take it) in sum were not typical enough for conventional answers,
> >>> they all lead back to square one.
>
> >>> It was strange to hear strong emotions from such a disciplined
> >>> person but I found it somewhat relieving, he still doesn't fit the
> >>> mold on offer, it is inspiring. So I'm not sure what kind of advice
> >>> to give or ask about, perhaps there is more perspective out there
> >>> somewhere?
>
> >>> On 7/19/2012 6:35 PM, rigsy03 wrote:
>
> >>> I had another thought on self-forgiveness/morbid preoccupation: One
> >>> may have lost all perspective and forgotten the suffering in this
> >>> world and neglected to count the blessings. Then it also depends on
> >>> one's culture which might inflict a very distorted view of
> >>> anything it
> >>> choses so the individual doesn't know any better. Families can
> >>> also be
> >>> so dysfunctional that normal doesn't exist or develop properly.
>
> >>> Not sure the doctors are making profits as much as insurance and
> >>> drug
> >>> companies, shrinks and "counsellors". Then, the attorneys!
>
> >>> On Jul 19, 11:44 am, Allan H<allanh1...@gmail.com
> >>> <mailto:allanh1...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> >>> Morbid would be an excessive preoccupation with and event or
> >>> sin.. Finally
> >>> started to figure it out..
>
> >>> Yes I know of the excessive cost of people taking advantage
> >>> of a program
> >>> that can be for free. When I came into AA the rich mans
> >>> programs were just
> >>> starting.. I was to poor so they didn't want anything to do
> >>> with me.. so I
> >>> became sober the old fashion way, not drinking and going to
> >>> meetings.. it
> >>> will still work today but that is to cheap for the greedy
> >>> medical
> >>> community.
> >>> Allan
>
> >>> On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 3:38 PM, rigsy03<rigs...@yahoo.com
> >>> <mailto:rigs...@yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
> >>> Jumping in here- my idea of "morbid guilt" would be that
> >>> which
> >>> paralyzes development past a trauma. It is different
> >>> than the tumbling/
> >>> domino reaction that a traumatic event sparks- more like
> >>> physics or
> >>> chemical reaction, in a way. But...what is identity?
>
> >>> I don't find you "simple", Allan. Why do you disparage
> >>> yourself? Thank
> >>> you for being "here" so loyally- whatever "here" means! :-)
>
> >>> Back to your comment about AA- essentially a seflish
> >>> program of
> >>> necessity. Older alcoholics who had money would go to
> >>> spas and
> >>> steambath their way to sobriety- until the next bout. I
> >>> never even
> >>> heard of AA until I was in my 30's- at that point I
> >>> joined an Alanon
> >>> group at a nearby church but think the divorce rate
> >>> pretty high from
> >>> that group- it probably was part of the motive of
> >>> joining up- keeping
> >>> score, so to speak, rather than understanding the
> >>> spiritual element.
> >>> At the same time, treatment centers started springing
> >>> up- last I
> >>> heard, getting sober might cost 5 figures a month. There
> >>> is another
> >>> element now of drug addicts going to AA rather than
> >>> narco-something
> >>> which introduces a whole new can of worms. Anyway, I
> >>> think drinking
> >>> alone is what got me in trouble when all the children
> >>> had "graduated"
> >>> the nest- but I was ripe, anyway. lol I really don't
> >>> miss drinking but
> >>> have thought if I got a fatal diagnosis in the future, I
> >>> might need a
> >>> few shots of single malt whiskey to ease the way to
> >>> eternity.
>
> >>> On Jul 19, 2:48 am, Allan H<allanh1...@gmail.com
> >>> <mailto:allanh1...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> >>> I know I am simple James, but what do you mean by
> >>> morbid guilt?
> >>> Allan
>
> >>> On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 5:59 AM,
> >>> James<ashkas...@gmail.com
> >>> <mailto:ashkas...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> >>> On 7/17/2012 6:50 AM, Molly wrote:
>
> >>> I have a friend who is contemplating self
> >>> forgiveness. Any
>
> >>> suggestions?
>
> >>> Look back from a context of greater maturity, in
> >>> the meantime apply
>
> >>> time
>
> >>> and experience: pursue excellence, appreciate
> >>> moderation, respect
>
> >>> processes.
>
> >>> Through personal growth pieces of the story
> >>> begin falling in place,
> >>> motives are replaced with expanded and stronger
> >>> ones.
>
> >>> Morbid guilt might be another matter, where it
> >>> mixes with identity
>
> >>> seems
>
> >>> very elusive. I have a friend that would much
> >>> appreciate your input.
>
> >>> --
> >>> (
> >>> )
> >>> |_D Allan
>
> >>> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
> >>> --
> >>> (
> >>> )
> >>> |_D Allan
>
> >>> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.- Hide quoted
> >>> text -
>
> >>> - Show quoted text -
>
> >>> --
> >>> (
> >>> )
> >>> |_D Allan
>
> >>> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -