Re: Mind's Eye self forgiveness

Some basic definitions might help. Happiness? Collective guilt? Impact
of a dysfunctional culture/family/educational system/ screwed-up
ideals, rewards, etc.

Also missing is the possible effect of even mild fetal alcohol
syndrome upon a fetus- which is a danger during the first weeks of
pregnancy. Shortened bonding of mother and child- maternal mortality,
depression, employment, etc. The many factors that fail to prepare a
child for an adult life. What is an adult life in a culture that
fosters perpetual infantilism/violence/ competition, etc.

The media hysterically bounces from one tragedy to another. I wonder
how a psychiatric nurse and software programmer (parents) missed the
signs of our most recent "movie theater killer" pushing Syria into
second or third blurb?

Too bad we are not in real contact. My youngest son is sending me 9
salmon. It's always something, isn't it?



On Jul 22, 2:44 am, James <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I was just reading the news, a rare occurrence, another reminder why..
> Somewhere under contempt, anger, and shame is will, a couple leaps
> further to hope, pride gets a bad treatment in the process but is
> replaced with resolve. One matter stands out though. That is the role of
> acceptance and how it can develop into affirmations, I think that comes
> into the resolve stage.
>
> Just a few of my reflections, I am certainly open to input.
>
> On 7/21/2012 10:21 PM, James wrote:
>
>
>
> > And predators of every sort, it is hard to resist the urge to stand in
> > front like a wolverine at times. Some things turn the stomach, white
> > heat is one, but it pays to understand the flame.
>
> > On 7/20/2012 2:22 AM, Allan H wrote:
> >> Personally I do take my personal responsibility very seriously,, but I
> >> am not preoccupied or at least I hope.. I do think there is a certain
> >> responsibility one has to keep vigilance and pull the fire alarm when
> >> there is a 'fire' unfortunately there are a lot of fires..
> >> Allan
>
> >> On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 6:30 AM, James <ashkas...@gmail.com
> >> <mailto:ashkas...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> >> Not sure if they would like the term "preoccupation" with the
> >> connotation of cultural values laden judgment but it sounds fair.
> >> Mostly his perspective sounds reasonable given circumstances and I
> >> can relate to a bit of it, but "morbid" seemed the best way to
> >> describe the challenges. For one this person takes personal
> >> responsibility very seriously but gives no sign of it because it is
> >> a "vulnerability" people will take advantage of, he seems to have an
> >> automatic fear response to happiness (seems like hypervigilance but
> >> might be pathological fear), is very opposed personally to
> >> spontaneous or excited behaviors but sees it as self discipline and
> >> carefully manages what thoughts or emotions are shown. Much of this
> >> sounds like he took life's lessons a little too seriously from a
> >> young age, but that is where identity comes into play. The
> >> existential definition that I think results by one's experience with
> >> the world, and how that shapes subconscious behaviors, not known but
> >> responded to automatically. I think that is where much of the
> >> difficulty comes from in his case, the nature of his existence
> >> defined by the world, and the resistant morbid part is the response
> >> to those pressures. Where the world judged him harshly for being
> >> different he learned most couldn't find waldo on a plain sheet of
> >> paper. After listing a number of things that are different he had a
> >> smile and pointed out that his challenges are not so different from
> >> that of many others except the circumstances (existential definition
> >> I take it) in sum were not typical enough for conventional answers,
> >> they all lead back to square one.
>
> >> It was strange to hear strong emotions from such a disciplined
> >> person but I found it somewhat relieving, he still doesn't fit the
> >> mold on offer, it is inspiring. So I'm not sure what kind of advice
> >> to give or ask about, perhaps there is more perspective out there
> >> somewhere?
>
> >> On 7/19/2012 6:35 PM, rigsy03 wrote:
>
> >> I had another thought on self-forgiveness/morbid preoccupation: One
> >> may have lost all perspective and forgotten the suffering in this
> >> world and neglected to count the blessings. Then it also depends on
> >> one's culture which might inflict a very distorted view of
> >> anything it
> >> choses so the individual doesn't know any better. Families can
> >> also be
> >> so dysfunctional that normal doesn't exist or develop properly.
>
> >> Not sure the doctors are making profits as much as insurance and
> >> drug
> >> companies, shrinks and "counsellors". Then, the attorneys!
>
> >> On Jul 19, 11:44 am, Allan H<allanh1...@gmail.com
> >> <mailto:allanh1...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> >> Morbid would be an excessive preoccupation with and event or
> >> sin.. Finally
> >> started to figure it out..
>
> >> Yes I know of the excessive cost of people taking advantage
> >> of a program
> >> that can be for free. When I came into AA the rich mans
> >> programs were just
> >> starting.. I was to poor so they didn't want anything to do
> >> with me.. so I
> >> became sober the old fashion way, not drinking and going to
> >> meetings.. it
> >> will still work today but that is to cheap for the greedy
> >> medical
> >> community.
> >> Allan
>
> >> On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 3:38 PM, rigsy03<rigs...@yahoo.com
> >> <mailto:rigs...@yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
> >> Jumping in here- my idea of "morbid guilt" would be that
> >> which
> >> paralyzes development past a trauma. It is different
> >> than the tumbling/
> >> domino reaction that a traumatic event sparks- more like
> >> physics or
> >> chemical reaction, in a way. But...what is identity?
>
> >> I don't find you "simple", Allan. Why do you disparage
> >> yourself? Thank
> >> you for being "here" so loyally- whatever "here" means! :-)
>
> >> Back to your comment about AA- essentially a seflish
> >> program of
> >> necessity. Older alcoholics who had money would go to
> >> spas and
> >> steambath their way to sobriety- until the next bout. I
> >> never even
> >> heard of AA until I was in my 30's- at that point I
> >> joined an Alanon
> >> group at a nearby church but think the divorce rate
> >> pretty high from
> >> that group- it probably was part of the motive of
> >> joining up- keeping
> >> score, so to speak, rather than understanding the
> >> spiritual element.
> >> At the same time, treatment centers started springing
> >> up- last I
> >> heard, getting sober might cost 5 figures a month. There
> >> is another
> >> element now of drug addicts going to AA rather than
> >> narco-something
> >> which introduces a whole new can of worms. Anyway, I
> >> think drinking
> >> alone is what got me in trouble when all the children
> >> had "graduated"
> >> the nest- but I was ripe, anyway. lol I really don't
> >> miss drinking but
> >> have thought if I got a fatal diagnosis in the future, I
> >> might need a
> >> few shots of single malt whiskey to ease the way to
> >> eternity.
>
> >> On Jul 19, 2:48 am, Allan H<allanh1...@gmail.com
> >> <mailto:allanh1...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> >> I know I am simple James, but what do you mean by
> >> morbid guilt?
> >> Allan
>
> >> On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 5:59 AM,
> >> James<ashkas...@gmail.com
> >> <mailto:ashkas...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> >> On 7/17/2012 6:50 AM, Molly wrote:
>
> >> I have a friend who is contemplating self
> >> forgiveness. Any
>
> >> suggestions?
>
> >> Look back from a context of greater maturity, in
> >> the meantime apply
>
> >> time
>
> >> and experience: pursue excellence, appreciate
> >> moderation, respect
>
> >> processes.
>
> >> Through personal growth pieces of the story
> >> begin falling in place,
> >> motives are replaced with expanded and stronger
> >> ones.
>
> >> Morbid guilt might be another matter, where it
> >> mixes with identity
>
> >> seems
>
> >> very elusive. I have a friend that would much
> >> appreciate your input.
>
> >> --
> >> (
> >> )
> >> |_D Allan
>
> >> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
> >> --
> >> (
> >> )
> >> |_D Allan
>
> >> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.- Hide quoted
> >> text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> >> --
> >> (
> >> )
> >> |_D Allan
>
> >> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -