Re: Mind's Eye Re: Matter

RP here is a humorous take on the enlightened predicament, and counting
sheep: http://yudkowsky.net/rational/the-simple-truth

When reading something like this one will likely have character
assignments in mind. But if one cannot or will not shift the arrangement
into a unique configuration at least three times, one is likely in the
majority, at least in that respect. Poor sufferers of chronic sanity.

On 7/12/2012 11:01 AM, RP Singh wrote:
> Lee , as a starter you could try to hold your breath for an hour. All
> the celestial bodies are obeying laws and all humans and other
> creatures are obeying other types of laws because we are matter. As
> for consciousness , it is just an attribute of life - there is just a
> change in the degree from amoeba to the humans. We are changing the
> world , right ? but we have sprung up from this very world. God did
> not put us here specially , rather we evolved from dust and fire -all
> matter. Our origin is matter and so is our end---in between is a play
> where we go about as if free , but all that I have said does not
> convince you and your reasons do not me. Yet , you win because the
> majority is on your side.
>
> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 7:49 PM, Lee Douglas<leerevdouglas@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Your reply makes no sense RP.
>>
>> How does it follow that human free will would bring about the collaspe of
>> the whole 'machine'?
>>
>> Are you saying that we have no conciouse control over breathing, that we
>> cannot choose to hold our breathes and in turn choose to start breathing
>> again?
>>
>> I get you mostly, but I simply cannot get past the seemig contradictions. I
>> can control my anger, I have that control yet I do not because this control
>> is just how my physical brain works? No mate it can't be both, either I
>> have can control my anger or I cannot control anything. Either my control
>> is real or it is an illusion, which is it?
>>
>> The other thing that I have to talk about is the mechanisim by which a brain
>> that must work in line with certian laws of physics somehow negates human
>> freedom of choice? How does it do that, I mean how, exactly?
>>
>> I think you are buying too much into this universe as a machine thing. There
>> exists here creatures with conciousness, and I think that it a game changer.
>> I think that when a brain that is cabaple of expressing conciouse thought
>> arises, then right there is the gremlin in the machine. We can see that
>> humanity has changed the face of the planet for it's own ends. It is our
>> conciousness, a conciousness that has arisen out th natural world, bound by
>> nautural laws, yet still capable of changing all around it.
>>
>> Think of it this way.
>>
>> Electricity is simply the movements of electrons, but ahhhh the things we
>> can now do with it, and the things that are imagined in the future.
>> Electricity like all things of mater are as you say bound by laws, and so
>> one would imagine that we can already tell what we may or may not be able to
>> do with it, are you one of those, do you imagine that we know whats in store
>> for electricity ion the future, or can you invisage other things?
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, 12 July 2012 13:53:49 UTC+1, RP Singh wrote:
>>>
>>> The will to change yourself comes from within you , but those who are
>>> ignorant of the intricacies of nature think that they have brought
>>> about this change. When you breathe you think that you are freely
>>> doing so but the fact is that it is your body which is demanding it.
>>> Whether you are controlling your anger or not is in your hands but
>>> your decisions arise from the working of your brain which is matter
>>> and as such governed by neurological or biological principles. If
>>> freedom was real the whole machinery of the universe would have
>>> collapsed and there would have been mayhem everywhere , but that is
>>> not the case and wherever you look you find harmony within. Whatever a
>>> man does it is his nature expressing itself , where I would have
>>> beaten up a child mercilessly you would not have because you are not
>>> free , if you think you are go ahead and shoot up your enemy , but of
>>> course you would not because your reason would stop you where mine
>>> would not. If you think that is freedom , then you are really the
>>> master of yourself.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 5:32 PM, Lee Douglas<leerevdouglas@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> My youngest son, like my good self suffers form anger issues. We have
>>>> had a
>>>> fine time in his 16 years dealing with this, teaching him to control
>>>> this
>>>> anger, urging him to learn when it is right and justfied to let it out,
>>>> and
>>>> when doing so brings only harm to him and those around him.
>>>>
>>>> RP's stance would render all of this meaningless. That it is not his
>>>> choice
>>>> but Gods, when he looses control of his anger, indeed that such an
>>>> expression as 'Control of his anger' becomes meaningless, there is no
>>>> control.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't like this stance, and I certianly do not agree with it. There
>>>> are
>>>> many reasons, but perhaps the biggest is merely differances in
>>>> inturpretating this message. God asks that you give up your head, that
>>>> you
>>>> surrender your will to the will of the One instead. God asks and then
>>>> if
>>>> you are so inclinede you do as asked, but you certianly have the freedom
>>>> of
>>>> choice in this matter, ss in every other matter.
>>>>
>>>> It is easy to say, I have no will but the will of the One moves through
>>>> me.
>>>> It is a cop out though isn't it? It declares that 'I' have no choice,
>>>> that
>>>> the things I do I have not done. Can you imagine a World where such
>>>> thinking was parramount?
>>>>
>>>> Ohhh nooo, I do not like this line of reasonig it does not conform to
>>>> the
>>>> idea of a loving God and it makes us all guiltless of the worst of human
>>>> behaviour.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sunday, 8 July 2012 16:57:23 UTC+1, RP Singh wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The ' I ' is a projection of the mind , which is matter. Matter is
>>>>> under
>>>>> the control of various laws and can never be free. Many of the
>>>>> constraints
>>>>> to our 'will' are visible and accepted by all. It takes a deep
>>>>> understanding
>>>>> to the know the bondage behind the obviously ' free will ' .It is so
>>>>> easy to
>>>>> accept the obvious , but to know the subtle ties that bind us is true
>>>>> understanding.