Re: [Mind's Eye] Re: My fellow zombies

How about old Jesus' speed at ascension? Wouldn't he count as unconstrained by agency at that point in time? Without the being Neo burden, I mean?

On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 11:30 PM, Vam <atewari2007@gmail.com> wrote:

" If you think you have free will
because you can choose between varieties of toy and other ADMASS
drivel then pass on by - free will for me would concern beating
Einstein's speed of light and its constrictions - but even then I
would not know I was free rather than selecting from pre-programmed
alternatives or being switched."

Are you still identified with Neo, in Matrix ?

What has free will to do with anything concerning Einstein or speed of
light ?
I find the association demented.

How is free will, the exercise of choice, in a toy shop any different
from the same in any other situation ?

The Wiki says : Free will is the apparent ability of agents to make
choices free from certain kinds of constraints. Isn't it what you are
speaking of ?

On Aug 3, 5:34 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Much wise in what you say RP and indeed, Orn, many believe they have
> no dreams at all.  I note Polkid is beginning his serial killer trip.
> I'm not very keen on these tricky questions we can't answer but can
> use to expose naive and unexamined lives.  I went on a long walk with
> some old colleagues who moved into brain science some years back and
> it was noticeable that they are all more convinced free will does not
> exist than I.  Humankind seems generally pathetic against the vastness
> we seem to have some awareness of and nothing is given to us as to
> what to do
>
> I have little interest in pursuing the question of free will - in
> normal dialogue of words, concepts, shapes and patterns I see no end
> to it and many sides.  Humankind does little in any of this as far as
> we can guess and has no direction on what to seek to achieve we can
> guess.  We may know more in the future, but also may not be the
> future.  We accede to five senses, though 20 may be more accurate and
> at least 2 more are known in dolphins than we possess.  I can tell a
> story of cooling hydrogen molecules and H3+ in the forming of stars
> which were our birth that suggest some form of 'shaping knowledge'
> even in the inorganic and the tale of the most, that that must be but
> which we cannot see and yet I can only describe my own free will in
> comparison with uninspiring robots.  Some god might unplug us at any
> time.
> Much of the brain science going on finds that human beings do not make
> rational decisions.  I suspect they may have been wasting their
> electrodes, as most of us are so poor at critical reasoning it
> wouldn't make sense for us to use it.  We may not be far off a robot
> programmed with emotional responses that match or exceed our own.  I
> believe most people are tranced and cannot think their way out of a
> wet paper bag.  This is not unusual in pack and herd conditions.This
> is a biological trance in my view.
> For me there has to be more than the striving of science and I don't
> want this to be a religious crock.  If you think you have free will
> because you can choose between varieties of toy and other ADMASS
> drivel then pass on by - free will for me would concern beating
> Einstein's speed of light and its constrictions - but even then I
> would not know I was free rather than selecting from pre-programmed
> alternatives or being switched.
> The questions come after this 'indecision' as do those of what is
> observing and its picture.
>
> On Aug 2, 10:59 pm, "pol.science kid" <r.freeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > i killed a dog.. my zombieness made me do it....
>
> > On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 11:21 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > "We have access to a technology that would have looked like sorcery in
> > > Descartes's day: the ability to peer inside someone's head and read
> > > their thoughts. Unfortunately, that doesn't take us any nearer to
> > > knowing whether they are sentient. "Even if you measure brainwaves,
> > > you can never know exactly what experience they represent," says
> > > psychologist Bruce Hood at the University of Bristol, UK.  If
> > > anything, brain scanning has undermined Descartes's maxim. You, too,
> > > might be a zombie. "I happen to be one myself," says Stanford
> > > University philosopher Paul Skokowski. "And so, even if you don't
> > > realise it, are you." Skokowski's assertion is based on the belief,
> > > particularly common among neuroscientists who study brain scans, that
> > > we do not have free will. There is no ghost in the machine; our
> > > actions are driven by brain states that lie entirely beyond our
> > > control. "I think, therefore I am" might be an illusion.
> > > So, it may well be that you live in a computer simulation in which you
> > > are the only self-aware creature. I could well be a zombie and so
> > > could you. Have an interesting day." (from a recent New Scientist)
>
> > > We range over debates in free will and what it is to be human. So far
> > > we haven't established free will or even that we are not merely
> > > avatars in 'something else's game'.
>
> > > I wonder whether there are advantages in considering ourselves as
> > > creatures limited by programming and also capable of it?
>
> > --
> > EverComing