Re: Mind's Eye turning the world Greek

Mismanagement and waste of precious resources of a virgin New World.

A rounded individual is an ideal. Don't forget Scouts, home ec, shop,
the arts, life skills, etc. Not great to be a geek who can't boil
water.

Why are there so many overweight people on food stamps and shelves?

Public security. Who is going to be dumb enough to want to start
companies in Muslim countries? Or in violent cities in the West?
Security also includes trust for honest government and faith in
products and services.

Generally there seems to be a principal at work that scoundrels
usually come to a well-earned miserable end on their own which might
explain the merry-go-round of the classes. Poor>middle
class>rich>filthy rich>ruin>poor, etc. Or, as mother would say, "The
bigger they are, the harder they fall." (She had a million sayings, by
the way. :-) )

On Sep 15, 1:46 pm, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey Vam I'm not personally rich. I live in a rich country and do still pay
> some taxes although not much. I've been finding the loop holes. Don't hate
> the playah; hate the game. Do you see Romney as "macho?" I think he's
> pretty wimpy. He better toughen up or the mainstream media will slaughter
> him. I still think Obama will win the deck is stacked but Romney has an
> excellent opportunity to lay things out in the public eye that most people
> don't know. He'll have his bully pulpit I hope he doesn't waste it being
> "nice".
>
> You knew I was employed 2 months ago. The fact that I am very happy to
> STILL BE employed should be news to you. Things are getting rough all over.
> (cue tiny violins playing "My Heart Bleeds For You") That said, should I
> find myself out of a job I'm prepared. Well, I think I am. QE3 is eating up
> my savings as I write. Call me cautiously nervous.
>
> Take care,
>
> dj
>
>
>
> On Saturday, September 15, 2012 12:43:58 PM UTC-5, Vam wrote:
>
> > Don, I see no scope of arguing you out of your regressive attitudes.
> > That's how plain I will get. So, instead ...
>
> > 01 The more macho the Republicans project themselves as, the more
> > effeminate they actually are.
>
> > 02 When you are putting the hungry millions and yourself on the balance,
> > you will win. There is no argument there. It's the norm at its basest. Cool
> > there !
>
> > 03 That you are employed and get paid, I knew. But that you are rich, and
> > actually consider yourself as being one amongst them, makes me snicker. And
> > that's one thing I never do !
>
> > We attended different schools, Don. God bless ...
>
> > On Saturday, September 15, 2012 10:56:11 PM UTC+5:30, Don Johnson wrote:
>
> >> Hello Vam.
>
> >> On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 4:07:21 PM UTC-5, Vam wrote:
>
> >>> The truth is we don't have economic practices to suit the 21st Century
> >>> realities :
>
> >>> 01 We need a global resource management order that puts food and health
> >>> starved millions, environment, sustainability and renewable energy at its
> >>> core ... not profit, not electoral populism, and certainly not this
> >>> oligarchical status quo.
>
> >> Soooo basically the UN without the corruption and cupidity. Got it. Those
> >> darn humans(chuckle) How do we pay for it? Oh yeah, rich people. At least
> >> they're good for something, eh? As an American I can't forget that once
> >> we've saved a people from themselves; put food in their bellies and clothes
> >> on their bodies and roofs over their heads and built them bridges and
> >> schools and sanitation systems we still have to deal with the burning, soul
> >> eating hatred most of them have for us. Anybody with a solution for this
> >> that isn't do-gooder fantasy?  We need oil now and will still need oil
> >> after 50 more heavily subsidized "renewable energy" companies go belly up.
> >> The truth hurts.
>
> >>> 02 Much of this eddy economics swirling amongst the rich is not just a
> >>> decadent pastime  but a waste when tested on societal needs ...
>
> >>> the concept of competitive economics that worked in resource abundant
> >>> era is out of date by at least 5 decades, since data on resource crunch has
> >>> been suppressed ...
>
> >>> the idea of markets to be conquered and captured is out of sync by a
> >>> quarter of century, since serving the needs of people has gone altogether
> >>> off the radar ...
>
> >> Not so. Neil is correct many jobs have disappeared this doesn't mean new
> >> ones can't be created to serve new wants and needs. Read an article the
> >> other day predicting the new Apple IPhone 5 will improve GDP by .5%. That's
> >> one freakin' product. If China didn't make a fortune in knock-offs it might
> >> even be more when all is said and done. I don't see getting rid of the rich
> >> as the answer. Don't think it's possible anyway as Neil mentioned the faces
> >> would just change. However, I do agree our financial system is in shambles
> >> and shamelessly favors those already in power. The rules must be changed.
> >> Unfortunately, the only time the rules change is when some lobbyist or
> >> another convinces some politicians to cut his industry some breaks at the
> >> expense of other companies and/or citizens. That's the way it works and
> >> nothing I can see is better. Just the seesaw rules and regulations change
> >> we get with power switches. We here in the US have steadily been becoming
> >> more socialist for the last 50 years or so and I believe, for the sake of
> >> the world, it is past time we saw back towards capitalism and freer
> >> markets. We can still feed the hungry and help them pay the rent but maybe
> >> we don't need to buy them all IPhones and cars and big screen tvs and
> >> computers and lotto tickets and tattoos.
>
> >> It's going to get ugly before it gets better. Those riots in Egypt and
> >> Libya? We'll see some of that here. It's coming.
>
> >> dj
>
> >>> Neil, the facts you narrate fills in the gaps precisely, and eloquently,
> >>> in my own felt notions ! Thank you.
>
> >>> On Wednesday, September 12, 2012 1:12:08 AM UTC+5:30, archytas wrote:
>
> >>>> Rentiers are those who benefit from control over assets that the
> >>>> economy needs to function, and who, therefore, grow disproportionately
> >>>> rich as the economy develops. These proceeds are rents – revenues from
> >>>> ownership "without working, risking, or economizing", as John Stuart
> >>>> Mill (1848) wrote of the landlords of his day, explaining that "they
> >>>> grow richer, as it were in their sleep". Classical economics from Adam
> >>>> Smith onwards analysed rents, its effects, and policies towards rents,
> >>>> but the very concept is lost on today's economics.Just as landlords
> >>>> were the archetypal rentiers of their agricultural societies, so
> >>>> investors, financiers and bankers are in the largest rentier sector of
> >>>> today's financialized economies: finance controls the economy's engine
> >>>> of growth, which is credit in all its forms. Economies obviously need
> >>>> banking services, insurance services, and real estate development and
> >>>> so, of course, not all of finance is "without working, risking, or
> >>>> economizing". The problem today remains what it was in the 13th
> >>>> century: how to isolate what is socially necessary for 'retail'
> >>>> banking – processing payments by checks and credit cards, deciding how
> >>>> to relend savings and new credit under normal (non-speculative)
> >>>> conditions – from extortionate charges such as 29% interest on credit
> >>>> cards, penalty fees and other charges in excess of what is socially
> >>>> necessary cost-value.
>
> >>>> Demographically, the effect of debt deflation is emigration and other
> >>>> negative effects. For example, after Latvian property prices soared as
> >>>> Swedish bank branches fueled the real estate bubble, living standards
> >>>> plunged. Families had to take on a lifetime of debt in order to gain
> >>>> the housing that was bequeathed to the country debt-free when the
> >>>> Soviet Union broke up in 1991. When Latvia's government imposed
> >>>> neoliberal austerity policies in 2009-10, wage levels plunged by 30
> >>>> percent in the public sector, and private-sector wages followed the
> >>>> decline (Sommers et al 2010). Emigration and capital flight
> >>>> accelerated: the Economist (2010) reported that an estimated 30,000
> >>>> Latvians were leaving every year, on a 2.2m population. In debt-
> >>>> strapped Iceland, the census reported in 2011 that 8% of the
> >>>> population had emigrated (mainly to Norway).
> >>>> Read more at
> >>>>http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2012/09/getting-economics-to-acknowled...
>
> >>>> Greece is just one example of what may befall us all.  I'm past caring
> >>>> on a personal basis and even scared that most of what I would see as a
> >>>> solution was actioned by the Nazis.  We need something to replace the
> >>>> rich, but this can't just be a change of faces.
>
> >>>> On 11 Sep, 08:57, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> > yeah we need a "universal party of amnesia" we could make it world
> >>>> wide and
> >>>> > run on everything the other parties forgot they tried..
> >>>> > Allan
>
> >>>> > On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 10:56 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>> > > The scary thing about most of the solutions in our politics is they
> >>>> > > have been tried before and failed.  Most of us have forgotten or
> >>>> never
> >>>> > > knew.
>
> >>>> > > On 10 Sep, 13:05, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> > > > Some of the issues facing us can be found here -
> >>>> > >http://www.zerohedge.com/news/americas-middle-class-divide
>
> >>>> > > > Greece and probably Italy would have become communist after WW2 -
> >>>> but
> >>>> > > > for Anglo-Saxon interference.  International money has escaped
> >>>> even
> >>>> > > > war reparation and the whole business of working for a living is
> >>>> > > > undercut by vast riches.  The real issue is about retaining
> >>>> motivation
> >>>> > > > to get the work we need done done.  I find the financial system
> >>>> > > > utterly demotivating.  The answer isn't communism.
>
> >>>> > > > It doesn't seem to matter much whether money is focused on a few
> >>>> rich
> >>>> > > > or centralised government.  The problem is the corruption of the
> >>>> > > > oligarchs or politicians.  Yet try getting people to organise to
> >>>> do
> >>>> > > > necessary work and you soon realise this is a process of
> >>>> coercion.
> >>>> > > > The idea has to be to spread wealth widely - yet even this leaves
> >>>> us
> >>>> > > > with problems of consumption and planet burning as we all
>
> ...
>
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